It feels like DPS demand the most Flexibility but have the most Inflexible Players

Competitive Discussion
1

This is probably only a low elo problem and im not saying the Tanks/Healers dont demand flexable hero picking, but hear me out.

For all the good role lock has done, it has cause a surge in games that make you feel helpless when your DPS’ gamesense (read gamesense not mechanics) stink.

Example: i was main tanking a Dorado game as Orisa, and our DPS was soldier/Sombra, already on paper a bad combo but its gold it could work.

It didn’t.

The enemy had double shield and high damage DPS (Torb and Junk) who were tearing through my shield like tissue while Soldier was getting little value due to shields and the Sombra just kept hacking random people in the back without actually killing them, and not hackjng priority targets like the shield tanks. I suggest we need high Damage shield break DPS to push.

They ignore this and keep running soldier and Sombra.

I go Winston since trying to win the shield war was useless and our Off tank went Hog, but we still failed and got full heled…then the idiots finally switched when it was too late…as usual.

We lost, almost entirely because our DPS couldn’t figure out “double hitscan doesn’t do well against a high shield high DPS comp” and stubbornly ignored the teams requests to switch their DPS picks. And those games just SUCK. Losing is one thing, losing after doing the best you (personally) are capable of but held back because of your own teammate’s selfishness and stupidity to see the obvious just makes me want to uninstall the damn game.

Ay this point I’m accepting the long DPS queue times. I may not be the second coming of Profit but at least i have a working brain when it comes to counter picks and what works against certain comps.

Wish most of the DPS crowd would figure
that out.

2

And yet you ran Winston into a bunker comp with torb and junk?

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3

Welcome to 2018-2019 Overwatch, where choices often surpass skill.

Don’t assume they didn’t know they are at disadvantage.

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4

Admittedly i was tilting like a mf at that point because the last request for DPS switches ended with the 1 kill soldier going “shut up R-word, git gud.”

5

If you are tank or support, for the love of … find a flex dps and queue with them. You’ll be doing both yourself and him/her a service. Problem solved.

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I wonder if part of this is also due to the fact that ults now charge much slower. I’ve been playing a fair bit of dps recently in 222 and there’s been a couple of times when I’ve been one of the dps you describe (without the toxic comments :wink: ) in that I’ve chosen a pick, it’s not working out, but I’m reluctant to swap because I’m over 50% to my ult and I know if I swap, I’m probably not going to get an ult in the time we have left.

I know that swapping could help, but it might not since I’m already on one of my strongest heroes, and perhaps what we actually need is something I’m not so comfortable with playing. So it’s kind of a tough decision to make now that ults are obviously still very strong, but less common so you feel like you don’t want to waste them or stop yourself from getting the chance to use one at all.

I do see your point though, and it’s something I’m trying to think about more in my games when I pick dps.

7

Have the same notion, all matches are decided upon the factor of things getting killed or not. It’s impossible to climb because in 9 out of 10 matches you have DPSers that just stick to their favourite pew pew hero regardless of how painfully obvious it is that it isn’t working.

But then again, in the years of Overwatch, swapping heroes have been a concept foreign for a lot of DPS players. It’s the reason 2-2-2 was necessary to begin with. Unfortunately, we still have the problem of DPS players who in their egocentric mind, don’t swap and cause the match to be a loss.

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8

Flexing across roles when you’re not as good at the other roles is one of the main reasons why Role Queue was created. Flexing TOO much is bad, and it comes when 5 DPS mains get stuck on a team together.

I think in the Beta season we have one main problem: The game doesn’t know where everyone belongs for each role MMR. Hopefully, Jeff and Blizzard are getting lots of good data, and finding ways to tweak the nobs to make things better come Season 18.

I actually kinda wish we could just reset our role placements and redo them to see if the placements are getting better for our off-roles. (Just as a beta season feature)

Evidence for my claims from Jeff Kaplan’s mouth:

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You ran Winston hog into a double shield comp yet you think you lost bc of your “idiot” dps? What a hypocrite lol. The DPS were probably doing way more than you.

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The round was already over and i was tilting. But please, enlighten me as to how a Sombra and a Solider dropping R bombs at the mere question of going Hanzo or Junkrat “did more” against this double shield insanity you smart axe.

11

I mean the round was definitley over after you went Winston/hog. You might as well have just stayed in spawn at that point.
Sombra wasn’t doing anything most likely just because Sombra is an all around inefficient character, same with Soldier but Soldier can work.
The thing is, half the time you don’t really even need shield break. Half the time, shield break isn’t even worth it. Especially when one of those shields are Orisa with a new shield every 9 seconds. There’s alot you’re not considering. What map was it? Was there high ground you could take? Were there flanks? What else was the enemy running? What healers were you running?
You could have even ran Rein Zarya and walked into the enemy team. The new Rein/Zarya is insane. Orisa can barely pull the guy. As tanks you have to make space. That’s not your DPS’ jobs.

It’s funny though. Failure to recognize own mistakes seems to be a huge thing with people in silver.
If you want to get out of silver you have to learn to win even with bad team mates. If you don’t; enjoy your long stay in silver.

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I am not silver you pos ive just had bad placements. I know enough about these games to know when things are going south. A damn Junkrat dripping bombs from the highground beuind them would have destabilized them enough to push.

Im effing sick of this, nobody ever can complain how much of a crap community this is, “durr hurr its your own fault lemme profile creep even rhough i wasnt in ur games and act like i know you”

Go to hell. This game is crap and its community even more. Enjoy making excuses for these dipshizz

13

Rii-ri-ri-riiiight everybody in silver had bad placements riiiight. But you’re talking about how you wanted the DPS to switch to do your job of making space.
That whole thing that you need a pick or some disruption to push is bs. You need to push, to push. Against double shield, you are not going to get a pick without a flank, enemy’s stupidity, high ground, or just cold pushing.
And okay, so there was high ground. if you had run Orisa DVA/hog (Dva probably better to keep high ground contested) on high ground, I’m sure your soldier would have followed you, along with your support and you would have pick potential without the fear of walking into the team. Orisa shield doesn’t protect from high ground so all you gotta do now is burn through a 2k or 1.5k shield that is essentially on a very long cooldown and you win the team fight.

Nobody complains because it’s not actually a crap community. Have you ever taken even a moment to wonder if maybe you’re actually wrong? If maybe you could have actually done something better? I highly doubt it since your thought was to go to forums and rant about how your “idiot” dps screwed up your match.

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14

The weird thing about this thread is that the title is so spot on accurate, but the example doesn’t illustrate it at all.

Tanks counter bunker by leading organized pushes and getting through it. Sombra isn’t even a horrible pick there, as her ult allows you to easily break it and get some momentum going.

Roadhog and Winston both feed colossal amounts of ult to a setup like that, you should have ran Zarya and either Rein or Sigma.

15

The fact that you tilt like this is exactly why you’re silver

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16

I see it all the time as a flex tank player. It’s a good thing I can play every tank or I would really find myself in some really bad situations otherwise.

I recently had a game, similar to yours. Where the enemy had 2 shield breaker dps ( Hanzo and Symm) and we had an Ashe and Soldier.

We never broke a single barrier with our Sigma/Zarya combo. I went Winston try help with the turrets that dps were ignoring and get come actual damage in hopefully pressuring the dps and supports (which I did)

It was grueling. I prob extended that game a good 5 minutes pushing the payload and killing the dps and supports but it was no good.

The dps never swapped and we couldn’t cap the second point on Hollywood at all.

The worst part Is always how dps sometimes tend to swap at the last 30 sec. Like, what’s the point? We could have used that 2 minutes ago.

17

Overwatch was my first PC game. I had no experience using a mouse to aim and mained aim heavy heroes with about equal playtime across roles from the start. I started with 30fps. I’ve never been within 300SR of dropping to silver. Maybe take a look at yourself in the mirror for once instead of just blaming every game on dps.

What you should do to test your theory that the dps cause all your losses is simply play dps. Then when you wind up in the bottom 5th of the playerbase again you can know you’re equally capable of ending up there that on every role.

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18

“The dps made us lose” is a complaint that you almost never hear in high ranks. Because gamesense exists up there.

19

A nice observation, but take a step back for a moment…

Could you be killing those enemies yourself, or helping more?

This was the reason I got placed 1k lower than where I should be when I played support and am now shooting backup through the ranks.

I played Zen and Moira, Zen I had lost my ability to click heads, and Moira I may have just been healing the wrong people too much. As soon as I went to Brig and Ana I won the next 12 matches in a row.

It was the realization that even though I knew who to have the heal orb on with zen and who to discord, I just simply didn’t have enough impact, because a big part of zen is doing damage as well and I just couldn’t hit my shots.

I won’t pretend I know how to play Moira, but I do know it is mostly heal orb unless mopping up.

Both of those chars I had pretty much zero impact, my placement depended on my team and in some ways just me playing those chars made it a 5.5 v 6 instead of a 6 v 6.

The thing I think a lot of people fail to realize is that when you play support or tank, you are responsible not just for healing or being a meat shield, but for doing more to ensure you win.

You don’t just walk in and hold your shield with Rein, you W and M1 with the occasional strike at the right time til you are lined up for the pin, pin then start swinging.

Similarly for supports. You don’t just pour heals into people, you augment the right people at the right time, you actually have to do damage at the right time to the people out of position.

As soon as you realize this, you will realize that Overwatch isn’t just a role based game, but it is still an FPS at its core, and you have to get the kills no matter what your role at times.

Personally, I don’t play Orisa anymore for that reason. I get sick gravs and kill the enemy tanks, but I have come to the realization I don’t have enough impact.

It is probably because I played alot of FPS in the past, but I have simply removed Orisa from my list and pretty much just Zarya where I can make space (if the enemy team is bad) control space (regardless) and will often pull better stats than the DPS in the process.

I don’t care for the most part if a team-mate is bad. I just do my best to ensure we win without feeding, and if I need to step it up I do. If we lose we lose, but I got nowhere being the passive support and I was stuck at my rank playing Orisa who I thought I was good at.

Being a tank or support DOESN’T mean you need to rely on your DPS to get picks, you can get picks too!

20

Some people play for the win.
Some people play for their favorite hero of the hour, winning being just an added bonus.
That’s all…

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