What’s the main difference between Sombra and Marvel Rivals Invisible Woman, Loki, and Psylocke that makes Sombra the most banned and hated hero in OW history but the marvels invisibility equivalents are seen as fair popular and healthy additions to the roster.
The answer is obvious they don’t get to spam invisibility for virtually no downside, first of all, the invisibility buttons in rivals come with long cooldowns, the support ones once activated will last until cancelled but then you aren’t healing or contributing to the team. Psylockes a DPS but her 3 to 2 second invis is just long enough to get past enemy LOS once and then you have a long cooldown you can only shorten by engaging in combat without ur cloak.
Meanwhile a Sombra spamming teleport is visible 1/6th of the time and the cooldown is so short that if she isn’t hard focused when she engages she gets to escape for free 90% of the time
If you want Sombra to not be permabanned in comp her invisibility uptime needs to be massively decreased to the point where it isn’t a low skill spam option for the positioning challenged
Well it’s clear blizzard wants her to stay the forgiving training wheels DPS for Moira and Mercy mains who are used to spammable cooldowns instead of something with an actual skill floor.
The problem is that invisibility is necessary for Sombra to do anything in the first place! The whole topic is way too complex to reduce it to a simple comparison of invisibility between different heroes from different games.
Without invisibility, Sombra can barely hack at all anymore, which in turn means she can’t deal the damage that has been required of her ever since the silent nerfs in OW2.
Sombra was never designed to function as a traditional DPS hero, yet that’s exactly what they turned her into—just because hack was supposedly too disruptive and there was “no other way” to solve that issue.
If invisibility were really the problem, people would’ve been up in arms about it back in OW1 already. But the complaints back then were about a completely different part of her kit!
I disagree and think if you find Spammable invisibility to be absolutely necessary to make a disruptor character viable than that’s a pretty clear skill issue for both the Sombra player and the devs.
Also can you stop the denial and misrepresentation of how Sombra was perceived in the past, her invisibility has been a big part of her complaints and frustration since she first left PTR and you saying otherwise is selective memory.
The alternative would be an uninterruptible hack and defensive abilities that allow Sombra to stay in the fight instead of having to disengage every time.
Sombra is based on a hit-and-run playstyle, and that’s exactly why I never had problems dealing with her—I just had to force her to retreat, not kill her. That’s a hundred times easier.
If you don’t want invisibility to be reliably usable, then that would be the alternative: a still annoying Sombra who can no longer be chased off as easily.
Like I said—the problem is too complex to reduce it to just invisibility!
Ahh the usual straw man ending with assuming everyone who finds her annoying struggles against her rather than just finding her anti-fun. don’t you get tired of repeating the same fallacious non argument?
No, it’s that they have kits that don’t cater to completely disabling a hero’s abilities. Full stop. Not that her invis is poorly constructed, yes there are issues with it but I would actually say it is harder to stay alive going invis as Sombra compared to MR characters who can turn invis. Two are supports and the other is a DPS which would be the closest one that is related to Sombra and even then it’s not really comparable, but all of the MR characters can turn invis MUCH faster than Sombra ever could.
None of this Invis crap is related to why they are better designed, it’s literally because Sombra can hack people and then go invis. Hack is the issue players have a problem with.
I despise Sombra but her invis is the least of her problems. Only issue I have with invis is they changed it to where when she recieves damage she can recloak like a second after, makes tracking her fairly annoying but it’s not the end of the world.
It’s a fact: remove invisibility, and Sombra will need the necessary changes just to remain playable. It’s honestly funny that Sombra mains have been saying from the start that exactly this would happen — but you all kept denying it with ignorance, only to now see that we were right in the end!
Where are all those people now who said invisibility had to be limited in duration and that that would fix everything?
Unlike you, I actually understand Sombra and know what effect each change would have, which is why I can present solid arguments. You, on the other hand, show up with nothing and reject legitimate points.
If invisibility were really a problem, it wouldn’t have existed successfully in gaming for over 20 years! Whether it’s FPS games where it’s just a perception delay, or MOBAs where it’s completely absolute — invisibility has been a functional part of games for more than two decades.
Let me repeat it just for you: the topic is far too complex to reduce it to just invisibility — and apparently too complex for you to understand in the first place!
Blinks shouldn’t be spammable, sojourn rail shots shouldn’t be spammable, cree flash fan shouldn’t be spammable??
What is even your point? Her mobility is absolute garbage, her escape potential against enemies with even 2 whole brain cells is you guessed it, garbage.
If you get rid of her teleport, you’re just going to get 3 translocator sombra.
And if we’re going to make characters kits feel like garbage, lets combine cree’s roll and flash, genji’s deflect and dash etc and see how their mains like it.
Sombra is annoying yes, but literally any amount of focused healing will offset any damage she can do. She just isn’t a problem.
You can literally say the same with all the other abilities, but theres a glaring difference:
Without Invis, Sombra becomes non threat / not annoying to play against.
You can even allow hack to go through shields and increase Virus damage or hitbox or lower TP’s CD , she would become Sombra76 (lose part of her identity) but the ban rates would go down dramatically.
This is just dishonest, specially because Hero shooters were not a thing for that long, and most of the other invis are really clutch or not as effective as Sombra’s.
You can claim the subject is complex all you want, but denying Invisibility is the meat of the dish (steak + chips + beans) is denying reality.
After countless conversations on the subject it’s clear Sombra mains want to have all the upsides of every other DPS while keeping as much cheese as possible, pretending it’s anything else is laughable, you suggest one nerf and they suggest Sombra needs 13 compensation buffs that all defeat the purpose of making her less annoying
It really isn’t. Most of the time, it’s a hindrance, leaving Sombras waiting for a perfect time to engage while doing nothing useful and not applying any concrete pressure (there’s the mental pressure of “where the heck is she ?” but that’s not the same thing).
Her damage without hack is already decent. That being said, if stealth were to be removed (or very heavily nerfed, with a very short duration and very long CD), then of course, hack would need better range, and a threshold on the damage taken before it is interrupted.
Good ! Make her an alternative to Soldier, with more of a disruptive side. Give her a slight buff on gun range, base movement speed comparable to Tracer or Genji, increased range on hack and a threshold for interrupt, and change transloc’s invisibility to a good damage reduction (allowing her either an escape, or to stay in the fight longer), maybe with an 8s CD (seems pretty average for a survivability CD). But nerf that invisibility to the ground !
The hack back then was what ? 5-6 sec of full locked abilities ? That was insane ! No wonder people complained about it. That was clearly the main issue (though I’m sure people found it really annoying to face a permastealthed hero, too). Now that hack has a good duration, and that she has way more firepower (less spread, more damage per bullet, virus), then for sure, invisibility can go. And I’m ready to bet a lot that the Sombra hate will go if you take stealth out.
She was already playable and performing well enough without stealth before season 9. I tested it. It already worked. And I’m a bad player ! I still had good winrate and good k/d ratio. So now ? She’s even closer to being able to perform perfectly well without stealth, with only minor tweaks. Make her a good flanker, somewhere between S76 and Tracer. That’s it. Problem solved. People will still complain. They complain all the time. I do too. But the visceral hate would be mostly gone, I’m quite convinced of it.
So sure, you can nerf something - but she would need compensation buffs to make her not weaker than she already is. So nerfing shouldn’t be an option. Not sure why you mentioned her being permabanned. You certainly don’t care about that.
It’s like on the flip side, you don’t want to give an OP Hero compensation buffs - the goal is to alleviate frustrations and make them weaker.
And none of this “it’s clear Sombra mains” stuff. You literally mocked me after she got reworked for saying this is a bad rework, now you’re here complaining about the same thing you told me to adapt to because I “lost my crutch”.
Nerfing her stealth is going to make it so that she will only decloak and hack and engage if she knows for sure she’s going to kill you when she does those things. You aren’t solving the problem with nerfing stealth.
All you want is plain nerfs to the already underperforming character, what else you do expect with that attitude?
I mean, your personal attitude is well-known, nothing new here, but playing saint when you unable to cope up with your personal affinity towards the subject of discussion?
Do you really think this is a constructive way of dispute?
Can you even be honest for a second?
