Genji’s Deflect hitbox needed its size reduction, but Moira’s orbs slow when they come near enemies. If you’re on the receiving end of a Moira orb as Genji, it’s unreasonably hard to Deflect the orb at any other angle except head-on, without suffering some odd 80-100 HP in the process (not including of Moira’s right click, and still with a high chance you don’t Deflect it).
I propose that one of two QOL changes be made;
- increase the slowed “enemy nearby” orb speed, just a tiny bit
(not recommended since this has indirect changes to Moira’s DPS)
- add a singular short manual input to Deflect (like a QTE), where if you click primary fire during Deflect, a genuine needle-point-thin hitbox generates in front of you that gives you additional range to Deflect Moira’s Orb (and other projectiles) if you directly look at them… doing this manual input will cause Deflect’s timer to end early.
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A valid argument but I really don’t recommend playing Genji versus a Moira.
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Why would you be playing genji with an enemy Moria?
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While it is harder to deflect orbs with Genji, it shouldn’t be easy; she counters him.
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Which is why my proposed solution (the second one) doesn’t make it easy.
If you’ve ever played Super Smash Bros, it effectively becomes Ness’s bat. It requires lots of skill, aim, and precise timing to knock incoming projectiles back at the enemy.
Deflect doesn’t and shouldn’t need to deflect everything just as easily as anything else.
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Which is why my proposed solution makes it incredibly difficult to do that.
Deflect ends early so you lose your protection, and you have to both aim at the projectile and know the exact spacing in front of you in order to properly hit it back.
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Making it “incredibly difficult” isn’t a good reason either, nor does it change the basis of my point.
There should be things that Deflect is less effective against without needing to ignore it entirely (Lasers).
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Moira’s orb is a single niche scenario, one that he USED to be able to handle but CAN’T ANYMORE due to his hitbox size reduction.
I’m not asking to be able to get that back for free – it’s not fair to give him a blanket buff for only one type of projectile that he can’t hit back. And it’s not fair to Moira to suddenly lose one of the edges she has against the Genji matchup now that she gained it post-Deflect-nerf.
Hence, adding difficulty is the ONLY fair way to make it so that he can hit it back again… One that requires skill to use properly.
If you’ve ever played Super Smash Bros Ultimate, it becomes the difference between Fox’s Shine, and Falco’s Shine/Reflector kick… I’m asking for Falco’s Reflector kick, which comes at a cost if you use it improperly.
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Or you could, you know, walk away from the orb. Or in Genji’s case dash.
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This isn’t about avoiding orb, this is about directly engaging the orb.
If you try to intentionally deflect the orb at any other angle except head-on, you have to willingly subject yourself to 80-ish damage, and activate Deflect late.
Off angle, you’ll spend a large part of the orb duration trying to catch up to it, and many times it will still soar right past you.
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Making things arbitrarily “difficult” is not how you implement Balance.
Game balance is about asking questions. In this case:
“Does Genji need to reflect everything?”
I would say no.
When you want to implement something like you’ve suggested, you don’t balance around the assumption that players are missing the input, because that’s effectively a situation in which the addition never existed.
You balance around what heroes can do, not could do. You assume that it works 100% of the time, because theoretically, it could; at least players will be trying to get as close to 100% optimal usage as they can.
(This is one of the several reasons why the people that argue “High-skill” heroes like Ana should be better in every way than “low-skill” heroes like Mercy are idiots.)
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But I don’t really understand the point of changing his deflect to suit this when there are just easier ways to avoid it. There is no need to directly engage the orb.
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[Strawsucking noises intensify]
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You need to step back and realize that Genji can deflect it now. If he can deflect it, the fact that it’s a deflect-able projectile at all means that he should be able to do it consistently. And he cannot currently.
Genji’s deflect size was bigger. Moira’s orb slowdown was tuned to that bigger hitbox. The hitbox is now smaller, and the orb is now unreachable in many of the angles it used to be.
If I see an orb headed towards a teammate, and I’m at an off angle, and I know that I could potentially save a teammate by intentionally going into it and activating Deflect, and then it soars past me because it’s just slightly beyond my reach, when it used to/feels like it should be within range, that’s not consistent.
If I see an orb that I could potentially deflect and deal some damage to the enemy team, and I intentionally double jump into it, but trigger the orb slow-down before it reaches my Deflect range, that’s not consistent.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t take some damage from it. He should.
I’m not saying that he should always deflect it. He shouldn’t.
But the ones where you intentionally go and it slips through because the size is now different, that doesn’t seem right.
So here’s a proposed solution that trades frontal-invulnerability with additional range, that will only give him the ability to deflect it if he’s skilled. That way, all of the times where you want to intentionally Deflect it, and you have the aim and tracking to do it, you DO actually Deflect it.
Why is it so unreasonable to ask for a trade as a QOL?
You’re basically just buffing Genji though… not sure he needs buffs.
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It’s not a buff. It’s a trade, with the potential to mess up and leave yourself vulnerable because you end the deflect timer early.
How about we leave Moira alone and call it a day?
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Not as easily as a standard projectile, or else this thread wouldn’t exist.
I think having a middle ground between things that he can reflect and things he simply cannot is perfectly fine.
He does not at present require special attention to allow him to put more things in the former camp.
I don’t think there is any particular reason to believe that’s a thing.
Moira’s Orbs slow down so they don’t simply fly past people it’s attacking/healing.
The fact that trait makes it difficult for Genji’s deflect to work against it before dealing significant damage is an indirect consequence, which is the healthiest form of a Hero Counter there is.
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You’re giving him the option of a secondary mode to use deflect in. It’s not compulsory, and will be used in optimal situations, especially by pros. That’s a buff. You can’t just give a character a new ability on top of their existing kit, then argue it’s not a buff cos ‘they might mess it up’.
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