Atention: Read everything, I’m asking for a powershift not a nerf.
Before you write the “another support thread” message, which is repeated all over again, just think about it. If a support has got a high probability to win a 1v1 against a DPS, it means that Supp. role is just a better DPS role.
And I’m not saying that DPS should have a free kill, just to have the upper hand on that 1v1 and that main supports should only be able to defend theirselves, and off supports were less likely to kill (only kill if your mechanics are just better and if the situation gives it). Then the solution to kill a flanker with support consistently should be playing a reworked Brig which’s only healing source is a healthpack (only one charge) with the range of 5m, which heals instantly and grants 25 armor if full hp (obviously buffing her kit and toughness around those nerfs).
A good example of this is an Ana vs Genji/Doomfist. When a Genji/Doomfist jumps to Ana, she only has to nade the floor to heal her for 100hp and to deal 60 damage to the flanker, while getting him an anti-heal effect. As well as that she’s also got a sleep (hard to hit) that just kills you if you get hit.
It would not be a flat nerf, just a powershift. For example for Ana I’d make her have to choose whether to use an anti-nade or a healing nade, or to make it not deal 60dmg, and buffing something of her kit.
Another example is Bap: A flanker dives: Instantly E and the flanker dies or has got to escape.
I’d buff the lamp and turn it into an ultimate
The point is that he should struggle to survive, and an immortality on a 25s cooldown isn’t pretty much balanced. A lamp to save all the team usually happens when a grav dragon, but the common use is to save a misspositioned teammate. Appart from his E he’s got the shift his damage and the boost, which will most likely win the 1v1 against a flanker that hasn’t got a out of jail ability.
someone obvs hasn’t played battlerite or paladins…
sooo “land this inconsistent shot on hypermobile enemy that can much more consistently land shots and have more tries to do not to mention so also can possible block your only hope shot or die”? nty.
Meanwhile, the rest of the enemy team is effectively down a support because they’re busy in the backline fighting you.
Distracting a support or anyone in that case and drawing out valuable resources like nade or immortality field is sometimes just as valuable as sending them to the spawn room.
I feel like you’re conveniently forgetting that supports actually have another job to do… They have to heal.
If they’re spending all game 1v1ing flankers, even if that flanker is dying, they’re still doing their job. They’re distracting the support enough to prevent them healing their team.
Also, even though your proposed powershifts are quite tame, why would anyone want to play support if they’re just complete food to dps? And what is zens excuse hahaha? Support would only be playable in the highest ranks, because even in plat your supports don’t even get decent peel from teammates.
yeah and the lack of such utility is why ana’s anti is so oppressive once it lands but that’s a discussion for another thread.
point being is that in those games, supports have a fairly even chance of winning duels (inclusive of dueling enough to get the diver to flee and the support getting out alive) and they aren’t “better than dps roles” at all and neither are the supports unkillable.
Nade the floor. He’s got 60 less HP and you’ve got 300hp instead of 200. Not to talk about how easy is to bait a deflect (melee) and that it’s not that hard to hit the shots, as well as you can get peel from your teammates. I might be a DPS main but my 3rd most played hero is Ana, it’s not that difficult to win a 1v1 vs a Genji, and if Doomfist doesn’t oneshot you it can be fairly easy to sleep him.
Yeah, as a main support he should struggle to survive. A burst DPS should have an 5/4 winrate on a clean 1v1, not a 50%/50 in the best scenario.
That happens with Sombra/Tracer, which can generate space and pressure without risking their lives. Genji/Doomfist are a different kind of burst flanker. Both don’t have survivability on fight and have got to go away asap.
Because one is a support and the other is a DPS. And I said that a good support should be more likely to punish the DPS mistakes, but not to win a 1v1 in as much cases as it happens nowadays.
And DPS have to do damage. When you’re trying to kill Ana, your frontline may be missing some pressure when talking about shield break or tank pressure. And not talking about that if a McCree is peeling the Ana.
As I said before, a Genji/Doomfist job is to kill the Ana, not to distract (due to survivability problems, they ca’t stay on battle for a long time).
You’ve invented that. I’ve said that a skill-intensive support should be able to survive against a flanker, but not to kill him. Zen for example is a balanced case, he’s not likely to win a 1v1 but if he’s better/he gets peel from a DPS he can kill the flanker.
That would be when Brig comes in. You sacrifice heals for a high 1v1 opportunity if a flanker is doing pretty much. And in plat probably the flanker is worse so you can punish him easier.
that’s not how max hp works in this game esp when we’re talking about a matchup against heroes that have high burst rather than sustain damage.
whom can now cancel and holds/maintains initiative.
17% average weapon accuracy says otherwise:
if you’re tying a hero matchup to essentially landing 1 shot (sleep), that 17% should be a really big indicator of how such a matchup definitely isn’t actually 50%-50% as you “intend” it to be.
not to mention the # slept enemies stats there too. 6 per match vs the definitely much higher amount of engagements between ana vs a diver in a match.
If you’re consistently losing 1v1’s to supports as Doomfist you are getting outskilled. Plain and simple. I don’t think I need to explain this. Doomfist has more than enough survivability to outlive and outdamage supports.
As for Genji his mobility enables you to out maneuver most support damage abilities and his base damage is purposefully lower because of his outstanding ultimate.
Again if you’re consistently losing 1v1s against supports as a burst DPS (or pretty much any dps for that matter) thats more indicative of an issue with your gameplay and not the supports design.
is it bad that somehow, just somehow im able to take on a monkey a lot better than an ana in game? idk what it is but even though winston is a counter to me as genji, i still have an easier time handling him as opposed to ana lmao. with ana, i just have her waste her 2 CDs just to deal with her because that nade is just death for genji. sleep is mostly a miss but when that hits me, thats just GG
So? Overwatch is not an MMO.
Dps has the advantage. It’s just that they still have to respect the support’s cooldowns. An Ana is actually really easy to kill if you capitalise on the downtimes of her cooldowns - something flankers are especially well equipped to do.
Except DPS does have the advantage when dueling supports. If you’re running in without an off-angle when they have their abilities up, that’s a mistake on your part. It is your job as a DPS to keep track of openings where you can punish supports that don’t have anything to defend themselves with. And as others have mentioned in the thread, forcing a support to use a valuable cooldown is huge, and your team can take advantage of that if you communicate with them.
There is so much more to the DPS/Support matchup than just numbers. If you find you’re repeatedly getting caught out by a support and losing your duels to them, then to me it sounds like you aren’t making your engagements properly and are being punished for it. Off-angles and cooldown tracking are your friend.
I would make all healers behave like zenyatta, more shooting less healing. Healings should only apply to one person per support instead of the aoe heals that characters like lucio, bap, moira or ana grenade provides. I love playing zenyatta, hes basically another dps with the ability to heal and debuff enemies which is so awesome. The way blizzard balances zen is by making zenyatta easy to kill, zenyatta can also be a ninja. Just the other day I singlehandedly got a 5 man kill as zenyatta because I made a flank since zenyatta is silent and it really catches players off guard.
Baptiste is similar to zen in terms of damage but I hate his immortality field, he already has really good mobility and really good damage, does the character really need a pocket ult? I love seeing baptiste players that can shut down echo or phara’s on their own on top of being able to heal his team. Those guys are true mvp, it wouldn’t feel cheap dying to a baptiste of he didn’t have his immortality field though. Supports should not have any free ability to easily destroy a dps player but should definitely have enough damage to contest a dps player.