I don’t believe that antinade needs a nerf. I’m open to suggestions about how it can be changed to be less generally powerful, as in weaker in some matchups, but stronger in others, or just less frustrating in general, but noone ever offers something like that. It’s always “Nerf antinade to 75%” or “Nerf anti to 50%” or “Remove anti from nade” type of suggestions to just gut the ability instead.
So, heres my alternative for antinade changes
Ana:
Biotic grenade:
Duration increased from 3 seconds to 4
Cooldown reduced from 12 seconds to 10
No longer reduces enemy healing received by 100%, instead it now caps healing received per second to 35.
These numbers are obviously all subject to a bit of fine-tuning. If you have ideas for changes or reworks like this one, instead of pure nerfs which are unnecessary, I’d be happy to hear those instead.
This is literally just a percentage change and a straight buff. This ability is fundamentally broken because it just denies all healing for more than one target with 0 counter-play unless you pick heroes specifically designed to cleanse more than one target (which is an equally broken ability).
There should be no “shut-off valve” abilities who deny fundamental aspects of the game incontestably.
I really wish they’d change it to a healing received cap.
I feel like there’s a lot more room for it to still be hugely impactful by limiting healing to low per sec numbers and leaving people vulnerable, but there’s also way more counterplay in low healing comps and team comps that usually don’t rely on a lot of healing being almost invulnerable to it and it can actually just counter high healing not all healing.
In this case, something like Zen orb, Lucio/Brig passive healing, or pylon (on a target afflicted by the dps passive), would not be effected by this new anti.
However, stuff like Moira heal spray/orb, Illari heal beam, and Ana darts/nade would be significantly reduced.
Them there’s ults like coalescence or transcendence or hog/mauga self healing.
It nerfs dumping extreme healing into a single target or high sustained AoE healing, but does little to nothing to stop more moderate amounts of healing supplemented with either cover, shields, or defensive abilities from 1 or more members of the team.
Again, I’m perfectly happy with leaving antinade as it is currently, but I thought I’d offer an alternative to the usual “just gut it” posts people usually make.
Set her back to the start of S9 before her buff and I’d be happy. (Or better yet set everything back to season 8 removing the health buffs and truck size bullets and hitboxes.)
I’d prefer not to continually stack passive after passive onto the tank role. At the very least, if we go that route, can we start giving individual hero types passives as well? Not necessarily all positive passives either.
So what you’re saying is that abilities that heal slower than 35 HPS aren’t affected. I don’t see why or how this would fix any of the issues it brings about, since it’s not the fact that it stops those specific few that makes it problematic.
Also this just another straight nerf to Reaper’s self-sustain which was recently gutted and devalued by the global healing passive as well as the armor patch.
It doesn’t have to be exactly 35, it could be something like 40 or 45 instead, I did say it was open to fine-tuning.
The idea is that if a hero or comp relies solely on high healing, they will still be severely hindered by anti, but if they don’t rely on lots of healing, and instead on other methods of sustaining in fights, they will not be bothered by anti nearly as much.
I mean, with this version of anti, Reaper would still be able to self heal from his passive, and whether or not you even hit the cap would depend on your accuracy, target size, and range from the target, not to mention that wraith form is still a shorter cd than nade, so Reaper will still always be able to self cleanse it, if he needs to. If anything, it’s actually a buff to his sustain while anti’d.
The armor change doesn’t really have anything to do with anti… I guess it would lower Reapers dps against relevant targets who still had their armor and therefore lower his self healing, but this version of anti would still allow you to self heal some instead of not at all. So it might actually be a buff for him in those matchups, while having variable impact in others.
I don’t feel like this is sufficient enough of a reason to change it in this way. This would just trickle down into more issues that stem from the very specific restraints of your proposed anti-nade. It would solve more problems (including the one you provided) if they just removed it straight up.
Only for the lower end of players. If you hit your shots, you would be capped out of at least half of your self-healing (1 200 HP hero translates to 70 HP). That little bit of healing is crucial as it is Reaper’s only means of staying in a fight or even his only means of being able to engage.
His Wraith form is also required to dodge CC as well, which seeing as we’re talking about anti-nade, would mean he’d have to sacrifice his only defensive tool against ana’s sleep dart in order to cleanse. Yes he still does that now, but that’s also why I believe anti is too powerful and should be removed entirely.
It would be such a tiny percent of healing that I don’t believe it would even breach the single digits. For reference he does about 94 damage maximum against tanks currently.
Nice idea, but as you yourself said, I believe there’s no need for any change. Instead, I want to focus on the contribution itself and thank you for putting this together.
There are few people who do something like this and even organize it in such a coherent manner. The way it’s presented there, it could be inserted directly into the next patch notes. You can immediately see that thought has been put into it, and specific values have been mentioned which, while they don’t have to be accurate, give us a clear idea of where the idea should go and what the goal is.
I wish there were more people who do things like this… Wait a minute!!!
More people who do things like this?!
You can’t be a human.
Kill it!!!
Well I got a better idea.
Anti is objectively a broken ability in 5v5 and even the devs have said so themselves, problem is they got bias which they’ve also admitted to so they don’t care.
Anti however was balanced in 6v6, same as discord, because it wasn’t as much of a braindead ability as recall or flashbang are because there was decision making and significantly more risk to using it.
So we just go back to 6v6 and boom it needs no changes
Obviously changing hp values is possible, but that’s not the point here.
Before Overwatch 2, there were no role passives, and only a handful of heroes that had a single unique passive, like Reaper’s lifesteal, Mercy’s regen, or Dva’s “eject” passive.
Now? Now the Tank role has 5 unique passives, albeit with one of them not being listed on the tank hero information page.
Reduced knockback received.
Reduced critical damage received.
Less ultimate charge generation from being healed.
Less ultimate charge generation from being damaged.
(unlisted) Reduced max duration of sleep dart effect.
There’s also the global healing passive, but we won’t count that one, as everyone gets it. In comparison, the dps inflict a 20% antiheal on dealing damage as their passive and supports trigger the global health regen passive sooner, for a total of 1 each.
So, in the less than 2 years since Overwatch 2 released, the tank role has gone from 0 to 5 passives. Now you want to add 2 more, “Reduced status effect duration” and “Reduced stun duration”, for a total of 7 unique passive buffs to tanks.
Again, I would prefer not to continue stacking more and more passives onto the tank role. Alternatively, if we do go that route, I would like to see more passives for the non-tank rosters as well. Whether role specific, hero specific, or “type” specific, as well as considering passives which are debuffs instead of buffs.
applies 250 (tb decided) underhealth per target as red health on health bar
all healing goes to reducing the underhealth for the duration of anti
underhealth removed when anti ends
This both allows supports to focus an anti’d target to remove the underhealth and allows hog/mauga to remove it themselves but at the cost of using up their self-heal to do so.
It does mean that higher HPS supports are more effective against Ana which is arguably a problem. But then again, currently only 1 (perhaps 2 if you include pull, or 3 if you include bap immort) supports are useful against it now. This would increase the counterplay and not make supports feel completely useless against it. It also stop Ana being such a strong counter against hog/mauga.
I’ve got to think about this one a bit more, but changing anti from a 100% heal reduction to a flat heal absorb is an interesting idea. I don’t think I’ve seen it suggested before.
At first glance though, it seems like the things that would be most effective against a heal absorb version of anti, are the same things it’s supposed to counter, which is a bit of a problem.
You’ll have a hard time getting any meaningful suggestions on anti nade on this forum when the half the chuds here think spam nade off cd = auto win fight
Power shifting Ana to be stronger against dps and support and weaker against tank is an option but here comes the dps whine train
tbh i just think anti as an ability shouldnt even be a thing, should be an ult thing, liek junkerqueen
and for such a powerfull effect, at least it shouldnt be on a massive splash aoe with a short cooldown
the main issue with ow problematic abilities are often their ease of use, and support abilities desings tends to basically be “just press the button, and the system does the rest”
while other roles have to aim…predict movements etc… most of the time (and for less powerfull abilities)
