I agree, but this wont change main tanks and the state it is in.
Not sure what you mean? You have more variety now than before the patch. I’ve seen every tank played
What heroes do you consider Main Tanks and how do you define the Main Tank sub-role?
I guess if you explain this more we will understand better what you mean.
You’re not finding those in QP, my friend.
You made good points.
Ok, QP is not the perfect or best environment.
If you are burned out from the game just take a break then.
Main tanks
Orisa
Ball
Reinhardt
Winston
Off-tanks
Zarya
Roadhog
DVA
Sigma (Yes he is a off-tank, stop saying its a main tank he cant create space well enough. Some call it a hybrid and that might be his problem, but stop picking him as a main tank)
Let’s make simple.
The problem aren’t main tank itself but Shields, they are bad for a game want to be competitive.
Shields reduce alot the need to be awareness, knowing the maps routes, angles and trajectories and give a no skill escape to non tank players.
Now Blizzard are trying to make the game more competitive, so shields are normally need to be reduced in importance.
The actual patch is only a partial try to attack the double shields meta.
But Blizzard is testing internally more changes will reduce the importance of shields and give more damage to tanks, change will make need players to play more aggressive.
If this test continue to be good and will come in game, are meant to make the main tanks less about pure protection(they will keep shields) and instead be more free to do damage.
Basically is only a partial change of direction of the shields tank, more about damage and less about pure defense.
This game needs shields. This aint CSGO or whatever. This is Overwatch unique in its way. But double barrier was never an option before Sigma. Now it is/was.
It suddenly worked really well since SIgma can place it everywhere. And role queue.
Read better, they not remove the shield, they reduce their importance.
Shield will still be there, but actually they are too strong and a too easy no skill escape for players.
Blizzard don’t want to attack double shield with the internal testing, they are try to make the game more competitive.
Shields are the first problem, second is make the tanks have more damage to be more competitive in battle.
After they tried to lower damage and heal a couple of time with bad result, they said will start to test to lowering the ttk, another thing to make the game more similar to a competitive game.
The objective of this change is to give more carry potential and have more 1vs2-1vs3 situation for good players, another thing you can find in competitive game.
Their intention is clear, they don’t want to nerf double shield with the internal testing, they want to push more the game to a competitive gameplay instead the “moba” gameplay.
Can work or not but actually the game is declining too much, need a big changes, specially with ow2 in the future to bring more players.
If no change will happen the game will continue the decline, modern players coming with ow2 surely will not like the actual gameplay of overwatch so they will not stay long, so simple the game will declining till stop of support.
You said shields are bad for the game who wants to be competitive, didnt read further since thats nonsense.
If you can’t accept ok, but for Blizzard the first problem are shield and they want to make the game more competitive.
You should have explained it better then or not started with that sentence. I agree that DOUBLE shield is bad for the game.
Revert these changes. And make Sigma a real main tank. Rework his shield to be placed or just delete his shield for another ability. And make him an offtank. But dont keep him hybrid
No i think i explained bad in the last message.
Even one shield is a problem, for this Blizzard want to reduce their importance.
They are a limit to the skill of players in various way, they reduce the need of have good awareness, the need to know the map angles and trajectories and other routes and so on.
You can’t make a competitive game and give to players an easy way to defend themself without need of any skill.
Is impossibile to remove them totally for this Blizzard want to reduce the importance, make the game less about pure defence and compensate this with damage and probably other balance changes.
Well, I’d say that Main Tank actually is the tank that sets up a situation for the team to work with. Be it a safe location, a front-line-escort, or chaos on the enemy set up with distractions, displacements and disturbances.
A situation on it’s own won’t guarantee your team the space you wanna occupy for free. Your team has to take advantage of it, that’s why the Off-Tank will help with damage pressure and peeling, DPS and Support doing their stuff too.
Thing is Escort or Bunker Main Tanks have not worked that well in terms of appealing or balance for the game. Appealing because there’s not enough players willing to play Tank for the amount of DPS players waiting in queue, and most players playing Rein (escort) or Orisa (bunker) kind of play them by necessity because of the bonus barriers offer to a team composition (yes, there are those who play them by fun, but that’s the minority). And balance problems because whenever a barrier tank has range plus other utilities they are oppressive against other characters in combinations, just like Sigma addition to the game showed us. He has an escort-type of barrier. Not only He denies ranged stuff with the barrier, he can shoot back, stun and has a self matrix to increase his sustain.
Also how are they gonna attract more players to play tank to improve queue times (for DPS)? Those players would have to come from the DPS queue.
IMHO Barriers should’t disappear from the game, I think Winston and Zarya are the best designs to take reference to balance the other tanks:
- A decent timed defense + good mobility + moderate damage (Winston)
- Or less defense + low mobility + but more damage (Zarya)
Tanks with: Long defenses + low mobility + varied damage/utility is the current problem of the game for offering more value than other tanks.
Also, temporary defenses are more dynamic, makes positioning matter more if they wanna a more competitive game like @blEricDraven said, they would have to compensate less defenses with more mobility or damage/range.
Wrong without a barrier, the Tank cant create space. And then we have ball… I dont really know how but it can create space. But Ball is unique in that aspect and sometimes you need a reinhardt or Orisa. Depends what heros you play against.
Goodluck with a payload push without barriers.
Exactly i agree.
You really confirm what Blizzard are trying to fix.
Shields are a problem for skill of the players, not see any way to play outside of shield.
No we need one main tank. Not 2. Thats it. Fixed it, thats how the game was played years before sigma. 1 barrier tank. Lets agree to disagree here.
State of the game is absolute garbage and the developers are done with caring about it so it’s not going to improve either - don’t blame you at all for leaving.
Also, don’t hold your breathe for OW2, that’s going to be trash too.
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Isn’t about agree between us.
Is about aggree Blizzard don’t want main tank to be so much important.
This is the only fact.
They are even planning on doing all tanks more similar to off tanks, Rein more similar to roadhog(their example)
I don’t think that making them completely 0 team defenses is a good move.
But, as you said, if they just make things like:
- Rein gets less “protecting the team” uptime and more “active in battle with range and/or mobility” time, that’s fine, cool.
- Orisa I’d say the same. She is too spammy and all about the slow sustain. Less spam from Orisa would be a good start to trade with sustain.
- Sigma already is a more active character in fights, he is already getting sustain nerfs.
- D.Va. Something is lacking with this hero.
I just think the others are fine (Hog, Zarya, Ball and Winston). Winston is fine for me, he just needs less CC and less sustain, less barriers blocking his supports to be able to work, maybe a slight nerf to his barrier such as 600 HP or duration to 8 secs max.