In all cases, if a support ult fails, you have lost the fight. All support ults currently are able to be used “in” the fight, this requires those support heroes knowing when to use them, but for Mercy you simply had to be out of the fight and wait until it’s over, then cast and begin again what was an earned push, weather through a combination of ultimates or just good play.
You put yourself there. But I can’t lift a pedestal when carved into it is a giant word “EGO” I’m done responding to you
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You forgot a few things:
- You had to abandon your team, making the fight a 5v6
- You had to get all team mates to die within 8 seconds and within range, often sacrificing positioning and opportunities to make plays
- You had to pray that no one caught you on the way back
- You have to hope that there isn’t some kind of post-res counter available like traps, Blizzard, Deadeye, etc
Hide and res was easily counterable, it’s just that everyone wants to blow their load for that juicy POTG to put on reddit instead of coordinating over chat (like you have to do pull off a “hide and res”)
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The strategy was baked into the design. So long as 1 button press can result in 1-5 people being rezzed there is then incentive to maximize the return on that button press. Once invuln was added, it became far easier to pull off. Prior to invuln, Mercy would typically be clipped trying to rez anymore than say 2 people.
Then I wouldn’t be asking you not to put me on a pedestal? 
I was just indirectly saying to not refer to me as a goddess. I do not think of myself as that high in status. 
Calm. 
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽
Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
It wasn’t, I cannot stress this enough. When Mercy Resurrects the team, there’s nothing you can do about it, it happened, you have to fight the team again, deal with it.
In terms of ult economy, let’s say the enemy died to the old “grav-dragons” combo. Or nano-blade, some combination of two ultimates. Mercy swoops in for the Rez, by which another DPS is ready to use another ultimate to attempt to wipe the team a second time!
By this time the initiating team has used 3 ultimates in an attempt to finish off the other team, whereas they have only used 1, Mercy Resurrect. In my eyes, 3 for 1 is nonsense, and it makes me happier every day that goes by that Mass Rez is no longer in this game.
By now you and I can realize we are completely split on this, and I feel that the topic at hand is meaningless because Mass Rez will never return. I saw it as a curse on this game, you argue that there was plenty of counterplay.
quoted by Patrick Star: “It seems we have reached an impasse.”
I completely respect your opinion BTW
It seems real finnicky on PS4.
I can get it no problem sometimes, others I can’t get it to save my life.
I seem to have less trouble with it if I use it on Orisa, Rein or Hog but Ashe seems to trigger it with a normal close range bunnyhop at times.
Since they’ve buffed how fast Mercy gets her ultimate and essentially reverted the healing done in it back to 60 hps, I’ve found her less of a drag to play. Even still I feel there’s some minor number changes that can be done to her to improve her overall feel to some players. (valk specifically)
I feel this thread could have gone in a lot better direction if the word fun wasn’t used here. Fun is subjective. Meaning that it will differ from person to person by their feelings on something. In this case how fun Mercy is or isn’t. You cannot argue a hero is fun and that’s the end of it, no one can say otherwise. Just as people cannot argue that she is not fun and that’s the end of it, no one can say otherwise. You can’t argue your feelings as the gospel truth on something.
Impact however is objective, meaning that their is fact to back up what is being said. Numbers and video evidence like the video above is proof that Mercy definitely does have impact in games. If the argument being made in this thread was ONLY that Mercy is now impactful then that would be agreeable and hard to refute because there is evidence supporting this claim.
However that is not how this thread has gone and instead fun was added into the mix to cause a mess on the forums again in another thread. Lesson here is DO NOT argue feelings as fact. Your feelings are NOT fact.
Solo healing should be a viable option when the healer’s kit is almost entirely dedicated to the task. Obviously Zen shouldn’t be able to solo heal, but Mercy, who isn’t even a threat to the enemy while she has her staff out?
She has the least offensive value of all the supports. She should have the highest healing output to compensate, but she doesn’t. Moira does, and Moira can solo heal quite well on top of maintaining a threatening presence to deter opposing flankers.
5 Likes
Thanks. I can get where the other side is coming from, but two points:
Grav-Dragon, Zen counters this on his own and doesn’t need to be out of the fight. You can’t really look at this situation after the fact either … sometimes you can end up hiding and no ult combo comes, the enemy team just mops up the 5v6 as they’re statistically likely to do. And to have succeeded in a Mass Res, you need to have been able to dodge any flankers on the way. Then even if you do dodge flankers and succeed, you’re now clustered with at least 4 teammates who are immobile while the enemy can re-position and set up.
There are so many possible points of failure here, so it’s not as straightforward as Zen doing the counter with 1 button press. Every second you spend out of the fight costs you and costs your team. And if we bring Ana Nade into it, I’d argue that it’s Nade’s anti-heal which has always been too strong, if anything.
Beyond that, if you look through competitive plays, almost every time a Grav is used to wipe an enemy team, it’s not even necessary. The Zarya herself and Genji with one dash and melee can just about insta kill all 200 HP heroes without any ults. A Pharah and Junk can also get close, and a Rein can almost kill them with two swings. There’s no reason for such a mindless play (Grav + AoE ult) to be rewarded with a team kill every time. And consider this is against 5 in a grav that might not have a main healer. The ulter should take a look to see if their ult is actually needed and make sure Mercy isn’t hiding.
That said, I think adding LOS restriction would take care of a lot of fringe cases where players might feel cheesed.
As for Nanoblade, Lucio can usually counter this (unless he gets killed while casting), as can Zen (unless Ana does something). Even Sombra makes it much less lethal.
So counterplay for res doesn’t just mean anteing one ult for another, it means staggering the enemy, intercepting Mercy or hunting her down, moderating ult use, and preparing a post-res play (now you could drop Hammond mines, for example. Deadeye was also buffed since Mass Res was removed)
2 Likes
The video shows the potential of the character. I prefer to take balance ideas of players “Master” + rank because even them do not have the absolue true about anything in OW but they may have a lot more experiencie than a low rank player.
I’d say… The simplest explanation of what I’d call “swing potential” for a healer is being able to say:
“My teammates were about to die, but I rescued them”
The semantics of “rescue” is important here. It implies a sense of urgency, where someone is on the brink of peril but you used your kit to pull them back from the metaphorical edge in the nick of time.
The easiest examples are support ults being used to rescue the team (or even just a single person) from an enemy ult. If you’re caught in a grav combo, your only hope of survival rests in the hands of the healers with big “swing potential” abilities they can use to protect you in your time of need.
Smaller scale examples include a Brigitte throwing armor onto a teammate getting focused by tracer, turning the tables on the British gnat. Or an Ana sleep darting a Roadhog as he reels in one of her teammates.
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Hmmm. I see a rez as a pretty big swing potential myself. The game definitely has a lot of burst damage and burst heal sort of emphasis outside of GOATs. Would a burst heal like ability really satisfy those longing of the swing potential of mass rez tho? Seems hard to believe.
It would be cool and all, but that’s kinda Ana/Brig/Moira’s turf
So… Then if a burst heal is off the table. What else do we wish for swing? Rez? A lower duration Valk with more concentrated power?
The resurrection effect itself does have pretty big swing potential. The current implementation of Resurrect with a cast time, however, normally prevents Mercy from using it immediately when the opportunity presents itself, when it would have the most impact. Mercy’s team, when down a person, must fight while down two players as Mercy repositions for the Resurrect and waits for her lengthy cast time. Bringing someone back is great, but the cost of Resurrect is currently too high, which offsets the impact and swing potential that the ability could otherwise have on the fight.
Brigitte’s repair pack doesn’t bring people back from the dead, but it does prevent death with a sudden burst of healing that can immediately turn a fight on its head. When applied to a squishy in their time of need, it prevents death, instantly, from 30 meters away. It requires little to no risk to use, and its effects can be compared to Resurrect when used on 200hp or lower targets. Despite how powerful it is based on its impact vs cost, it has a short 6 second cooldown compared to Mercy’s 30 seconds.
Blizzard originally reworked Mercy with the goal of lowering the impact of Resurrect, and they have achieved that goal. The problem is that, while Resurrect felt impactful, it really wasn’t as impactful as people thought it was in its original form as an ultimate. Making it less impactful than it was just made Mercy weak, on top of being a lot less exciting to play.
No. However, a version of mass resurrect as an ultimate with a very short cast time and a one-off burst heal for Mercy and nearby allies instead of total invulnerability for Mercy would fix every major problem I have ever seen raised about mass resurrect, or Mercy in general. That is the direction that Blizzard should have gone with her from the start, and the direction they should start over with when approaching future rework ideas.
As for non-Resurrect, non-burst-heal swing potential… that really just leaves increasing Mercy’s lethality as a final option. If we can’t have some form of mass resurrect, Blizzard could at the very least give disgruntled Mercy mains an opportunity to take out our frustrations with our pistol on the opposing team. Valkyrie used to do that back when it first appeared on the PTR, and it was amazing. It was still nowhere near an actual damage ultimate in terms of output, but it made Mercy feel powerful, instead of like everyone’s favorite punching bag.
If Mercy isn’t allowed to stop her team from getting killed, then she needs to be able to participate in the killing.
The Valk idea could work out I think. Res would be fine as it was, with maybe some kind of limitation (to make up for bunny hop GA) but people are irrationally opposed to it.
Hmmm that’s unfortunate, as many are against such a method… The unlimited ammo of Valk does increase her lethality quite a bit already. Could we not find ways to adjust Valk, that doesnt involve lethality or some Rez related element, that increases swing potential?
I plan to reply to your post in totality once I can reach a computer but wont be able to for about 15 mins.
If it’s not Mercy’s pistol or her Resurrect and it’s a part of Valkyrie’s impact value, it must be either Mercy’s yellow beam or blue beam. Flight can enable impact, but it has no impact of its own. That means further increasing Mercy’s yellow beam healing, which would turn Valkyrie into a budget Transcendence more than it already is, or increasing Mercy’s damage boost, probably to 50%.
Given that it’s an ultimate, I don’t think a 50% damage boost would actually break anything. It wouldn’t put Ana’s nanoboost out of business, because nanoboost still has 50% damage resistance which applies to the entire enemy team. In fact, in organized teams with called targets and focus fire, the damage resistance component of nanoboost alone would effectively negate an opposing Valkyrie’s damage boost.
Another idea I’ve had would be causing Valkyrie to emit an instant 200hp heal for everyone in range of Mercy upon activation. That’s adding an additional mechanic to the ability, but it would absolutely restore Mercy’s ability to swing a fight with her ultimate without stepping on Zen’s toes with beam healing buffs. It would be a poor substitute for Mass Resurrect, but it would serve very much the same purpose. It would actually fit the ult line, “Heroes Never Die!”, and it would solve the problems presented by Valkyrie interrupting Mercy’s healing beam on activation.
One person’s experience =/= how everyone thinks.
Keep in mind that not everyone is capable of playing heroes at a grandmaster’s level.