If you hate watching GOATS, then nerf Rein

General Discussion
1

Reinhardt and before that Winston, have warped high level meta. Now Orisa is threatening to do the same.

What do all three have in common? A barrier.

Barriers provide a safe area for teammates, whether to march forward, Dive in and have safety, or bunker down and shoot at enemies. Unless you want every meta defined by what the barrier tanks do then you HAVE to nerf barriers because their considered as being required.

Let’s look at barriers:

  1. They deny ult charge to the enemy team.
  2. They reduce healing load for your team.
  3. They mess up line of sight.
  4. They deny other people the ability to use their abilities. ex. Sombra can’t hack through them, and Junkrat mines do not pass through them.
  5. They absorb a TON of damage.
  6. They recharge quickly.

If you do not have barrier you:

  1. Charge enemy ult quicker than you charge yours
  2. Healing load is high
  3. Line of sight is achieved, so things like burst damage get through
  4. Abilities are available freely
  5. You don’t absorb nearly the same damage

Clearly it is a mechanic that should be reserved to ultimates right? Wrong. It’s available pretty much all game to some heroes. While I’m not strictly against barriers, let us not forget Brigette has one too, and has been very successful in high level play.

This isn’t balanced, and having barriers is a bad design to have in a FPS, allowing you to shoot but not be shot at. Of course then the game will revolve around three heroes, which is the definition of unbalanced in a roster of over 30 heroes.

Even if the hero itself becomes weak after nerfing barriers, they could be given compensation buffs. It should be rolled out gradually.

For example, ult charge should be given at a rate of 25% for hitting barriers to deter people just spamming barriers permanently and think about when and where to use them most effectively. This would let someone like Roadhog actually have a chance of main tanking.

If this isn’t enough up it to 50%. If that isn’t enough up it to 80%.

If barrier giving ult charge isn’t enough then nerf their recharge rate and uptime. IF that isn’t enough make them reduce damage rather than outright block all of it and mess with the numbers of how much is let through, start with 10%, then go to 20% and so on.

Having 3 heroes dictate how the game is played limits the game to being played 3 ways.

Dive, Deathball push, and Bunker. And you’re not going to see any more creativity than that unless you add more barrier tanks, which isn’t fixing the problem. Because then your other tanks aren’t being used to tank, they’re fat DPS. And you’ll continue to have huge balance issues and see one of 3 tanks define a meta.

4 Likes
2

…then they’ll just run Winston GOATS

14 Likes
3

Reinhardt is the secret poster child for high level OW.

Low elos Tracer can have a field day, but at high levels it’s Rein or bust. 2000HP massive shield? Yeah, let’s not pick that for pushing almost every point. :man_shrugging:

1 Like
4

Nerf Reinhard??t… He’s not even the best tank on the ladder.

13 Likes
5

Nerfing Rein won’t just ruin GOATS, it’ll ruin almost every basic comp that has existed since launch.

Not to mention, he’s got enough bugs working against him that a single nerf to any core aspect of his kit would make him entirely useless and completely unfun. You do remember that fun was the whole point of the game, right?

If you hate GOATS, figure out a counter for it. If you think it’s impossible, that just represents a lack of imagination.

2 Likes
6

Yeap, ult charging mechanic is one of the reasons shields are a must in this game.

It’s one thing to have a damage protection like in other games. But in Overwatch it is also about not letting enemy to charge their ults and shields make a HUGE difference here. And since ults in Overwatch are very powerful - so is the ability to slow their charging.

Barriers are a must have in this game, every tank without them is treated like a secondary tank by community exactly because of this.

P.S. So, while I don’t think Rein needs a nerf, Barriers do need something to be done about them. Either a nerf or some kind of alternative to make living without barriers a viable choice.

2 Likes
7

Did someone just seriously, think out points of a plan to try and argue to have Reinhardt nerfed? Is this serious?

No.
Just no.

2 Likes
8

He’s most picked overall. Orisa only pulls ahead in GM. Which GM is such a small population it’s a terrible statistic to isolate without considering the grander scheme.

1 Like
9

Most picked =/= best overall. Also, again… what? No, man… no. I literally cannot even wrap my mind around the sheer cliffhang insanity of this in order to formulate the words, that could explain to you why nerfing Reinhardt is a bad idea.

2 Likes
10

You don’t know what the grander scheme is.
The reality is there aren’t a lot of tank players, so people flex onto Reinhardt (because it’s an easy concept to understand; get behind big rectangle for protection). Reinhardt is simply comfort food for lower ranks, but he is balanced.

Orisa + Hog or a GOOD Hammod are the best tanks right now. Regardless of whether people pick them in their ranks.

3 Likes
11

It’s the best idea, and the community is so warped and brainwashed going after DPS with the lowest win rates, or terrible pick rates, or moderately underpowered, that they’re actually convinced that having one of 3 heroes be must pick is good for the game or even healthy. It’s like talking to a bunch of people who only eat at McDonald’s and telling them that their diet is killing them and they’re like “haha food makes you live, check mate”.

Stats don’t lie and are reliable sources of information, but you sure just did lie and are not a reliable source of information.

1 Like
12

Hammond is an ult-charging battery against any team that can aim. Sure, he will escape, but all the damage done to him while he makes his moves will come back to his team with ults.

Tanks without barriers are at huge disadvantage in this game.

2 Likes
13

In no way shape or form, is it ‘the best idea’. It is, an, idea. And not one that I believe would be particularly wise for the overall game. There will always be specific characters who have a higher pick rate, for different map types, maps within those map types, modes etc etc…

Because it is designed that way, it is literally working as intended.

14

!!! I’m sorry wut?
Kid you got a nasty agenda to want to nerf Reinhardt. Good luck with that.

Reinhardt is one of the most balanced tanks who swings like a pendulum as changes are made AROUND him.

He is picked in the lower ranks mainly because people can’t AIM. pick-rate for bronze silver and gold is not a test for balance. You are completely wrong to the point it hurts. Most of the player base doesn’t even play the game to it’s full potential. They waste ultimates, can’t enemy ult track, don’t shot call, hardly synergize ability, are worthless at creating synergistic team comps, and don’t/refuse to counter pick.

But yeah… lets let the games balance rest on all THOSE players.
Completely idiotic.

6 Likes
15

Backed by stats, yours is backed by opinion. Having pick rates whack is not a good idea, or good design. It’s like saying your car with square wheels was designed that way and try to sell it as a good thing “normal cars are all smooth, not my car, my car is INTERESTING!”. Except having the same heroes picked every game isn’t interesting. It’s snorefest.

16

You act like the Hammond player doesn’t have 5 other players on his team. Hammond goes in and disrupts and displaced FOR his team. He boops targets off high ground (like Paris) for his team.

Most of the player base doesn’t even know how to play Hammond effectively.

3 Likes
17

You said I don’t know what the grander scheme is and then went off on ad hom. So I just told you the truth. And you went off on more ad hom. So case closed on this convo. I win, you lost. Easy.

18

I got trolled. Well played 10/10

1 Like
19

If mine is backed by ‘opinion’ - then it’s backed by the ‘opinion’ of the people who made, and maintain the game you’re playing. Overwatch is supposed to have counterplay, you can find any number of interviews, sound bytes, cute twitter memes about it. It’s just a fact my good friend-o. Not all are created equal in all facets and aspects of the game.

20

No, but they can be incomplete. Don’t try and pretend you can tell how powerful a hero is just by their pickrate. Versatility and power are not the same thing

2 Likes