You dont need to climb to top 500 to know Sojourn is broken. That literally has nothing to do with people climbing to top 500 with Genji.
What does region have to do with it? The majority of players are in North and South America so that is the biggest sample size. Also there are more than 15, I know you haven’t actually counted them because you don’t want to know the truth.
You just completely ignored my point with the strawman of “well thats in America so it doesn’t apply to me”.
Hardcore playerbase that performs just fine with him in top 500? Can’t be that bad then.
Lol you speak for all high ranked player now.
You’re masters. You claim to have reached GM with REAPER (lol) and argued you fell intentionally so you could play Genji. You do not speak for an entire rank, especially one you aren’t in.
And before you call me a hypocrite, I am actually using stats to show what players are actually doing in GM+, not just saying “they all agree with me”.
Right and you argue that people play Genji because he is fun.
So how did Genji become less fun from season 1 to season 2? Obviously he did since he only appeared in the top 500, 73 times. So how did he become less fun? Answer that.
And yet he still appeared 73 times in top 500. So he has a lot of “one tricks” that are doing perfectly fine on him.
So boosted Genji players playing a broken champ can’t stay in top 500 after the hero got nerfed by -2 damage?
top 500 players tell you genji is both garbage and sojourn is overpowered and thats why you dont want to listen to them
more like, you told me that i was wrong, and i said that i was using numbers from eu, also there are at max 15 genji otps in t500 that dont just get in and out of t500 for short periods of time, again nitpicking and trying to make it seem like you are right.
oh yeah, lets just ignore flats, svb, samito, necros, shadder and idk nearly ALL t500 players who said genji is and was not a problem, using stats is exactly what got blizzard the miserable state of the current game, your not actually playing the game, which is indicative that nobody should listen to you because u dont know what you are talking about.
again, dumpstering a hero will only leave the best of the best who CANT switch off of that hero because they have poured WAY too much time into the hero will drop alot of players from ranks, its like expecting certain players who one trick to stay relevant in EVERY meta, its just not possible.
oh yeah, the zen player who is in diamond saying genji is broken, hilarious.
get better lil bro, then you wont have problems with genji.
bro hanqz copes so hard it is amazing “but people play him for me” and “stats this stats that” when looking at stats exclusively is exactly what got ow2 in a bad state.
You mean the 2-3 top 500 streamers who play Genji? And they spoke for all 250 people in top 500 playing Genji in season 1 did they?
You completely diverted away from the point. And fyi, Genji appears in the EU top 500, season 2, 85 times. So that’s actually MORE than America so are you sure you want to focus on EU?
I didn’t think I’d have to tell you this, but all because your favourite streamer said something doesn’t mean that is a universal opinion. There are what, less than 15-20 popular OW streamers who aren’t even all in GM, and somehow you think they speak for the other thousand players in GM who aren’t streamers?
I love how you only disregard stats when they dont support your delusional opinion. As long as they prove Genji is garbage and useless they are fine, if not they are just unreliable and should be ignored.
LOL, so literally in other words, his pickrate went down because he got nerfed. But I thought he was soooo fun
The typical Genji whiner unable to spell simple words, making a new thread everyday crying about your precious one trick who you failed to stay in GM with.
Funny you still reply in this thread after failing to respond to my last post? If you don’t have an argument please stop pretending you’re right.
Yeah you’re right because your opinion and your opinion alone is worth 10x what stats are worth. My bad.
People don’t like statistics when they don’t agree with them :((( sorry
If you took the time to read anything I have said, I showed that Genji appears in the top 500 WAY more than Sombra, JQ and Brig. And 2 of those heroes are in a class with a much smaller hero pool.
Sombra appears less than 15 times, how are you going to say that is the same as Genji appearing over 80 times?
oh yeah, because you too could name all the players in t500 who disagree with me in one paragraph, stop nitpicking, your embarrassing yourself.
again, not as most played character, second or third, which is not a good look, people WHO ACTUALLY one trick him are extremely rare.
but then you speak for all high ranks despite being diamond…
i have not once relied on stats completely this entire debate, and i have told you many times that stats cannot be relied on in this game with the amount of outliers.
one tricks will not switch off their main, you are delusional to think so, it is extremely rare and your only strawmanning saying that the SAME exact GENJI OTPS did not drop out of t500 because genji got dumpstered when infact thats what happened.
oh yeah, because i dont play 500+ matches just to stay in gm with a garbage tier hero thats even more off meta than reaper in start to mid season i apparently failed to stay in gm, you failed to play the game bro, your legit diamond as support, your only points are “GENJI WHINER CANT SPELL WORDS WAHHH, HE MAKES THREADS EVERYDAY WAHH, I HAVE 8K POSTS ON FORUMS WAHH”
more like im the only one sticking around because nobody can stand your insufferable way of arguing except me.
oh yeah, lets just ignore how the ENTIRE playerbase hates ow, you dont even have to hear it from me, you can see negative comments in both forums, tik tok, reddit, discord, ingame chat itself, and even their social media posts get so much hate, but yeah, lets keep hard coping with stats and kill the game, surely that would work, eventually.
How is me pointing out that you’re exaggerating how many people agree with you, “nitpicking”?
You don’t know everyone in GM actually agrees with you, you just assume they do because 2 GM Genji one tricks do.
Being within their top 3 most picked still says a lot when there are 16 heroes to choose from.
I don’t speak for any rank, I use stats to show what is actually happening while your entire argument is based on feelings and opinions and generalisations of all Top 500 players.
That’s because you haven’t relied on any stats lmfao. What stats do you have to support your argument? Oh… none.
If overbuff and top 500 leaderboards were actually in your favour I know you’d be all over it.
Not talking about one tricks, I’m talking about the people who played him in season 1 and stopped playing him after he got nerfed.
You did fail to stay in GM and it’s hilarious that you’re trying to act like it was intentional.
You’re.
Or they couldn’t answer a simple question like you also can’t and realised they’re wrong.
I suppose someone providing logic and stats to backup their argument is “insufferable” to you when you rely simply on bad grammar and pathetic attempts to attack me to draw attention away from your delusional opinion.
because i have not heard one gm player consistently whine about genji like the metal ranks do, compared to widow and sojourn gms have never whined about genji.
not really, especially when the difference between the first and second is 10 - 4 hours and even more drastic on the third, i myself have reaper on second and echo, i BARELY play echo and i only switch back and forth between reaper and genji, meaning that i rarely play the other two but they will NEVER show other heroes, not a good argument, moving on.
and yet again looking exclusively at stats is exactly what has gotten this game into the worst possible state
overbuff is low elo and high elo combined together and not a reliable source at all when it comes to high elo, top 500 leaderboards do agree with me, there are only 10-15 TRULY OTP genjis in t500.
thats called meta players, and ah, so i guess your own argument goes against you, they swapped off genji so they stay the same rank, proving hes unviable in high elo except for the most skilled specialists.
it infact was.
your, you dont deserve the extra brain power
your logic works against you, you dont have logic, all you have is sloppy stats pulled from overbuff that is across ALL elos which is inaccurate and creates false data, t500 leaderboards doesnt agree with you, gm players dont agree with you, all you have is your metal rank support buddies, who also think genji is OP
Maybe the fact they aren’t whining means they think Genji is actually in a decent place right now.
This is just an assumption. You have no idea what their playtime hours are.
You mean Genji not being the best DPS? What kind of argument is that? “We shouldn’t be balancing around stats”.
I suppose you’re going to argue balancing about opinion and emotions is better.
Again, another assumption. It doesn’t matter whether they are one tricks or just play Genji, it shows people ARE playing him more than the majority of DPS heroes in top 500.
??? They swapped off Genji after he got nerfed, proving that a hero’s current strength is a large factor in their pickrate.
Alright
Ah, I see you intentionally have terrible grammar just like you intentionally can’t stay in GM
Idk what leaderboards you’re reading but they absolutely prove my point.
They -
Show how busted Genji was in season 1 and why he deserved the nerf
Show that Genji is still being played way more than most other DPS in top 500
Show that once a hero becomes weaker, their pickrate is most likely going to decline
All you’ve managed to say is there are only 10 Genji one tricks in the top 500 which is supported by literally nothing but a baseless assumption on your part.
i have not heard one gm streamer or gm player whine during season 1 when genji was meta, again nitpicking and completely taking things out of context.
neither do you, so you have no right to make it an assumption that it matters.
oh yeah but symmetra and reaper, both lower skill ceilings and lower skill floor characters deserve to be better than genji, amazing logic there.
its not an assumption, there actually only 15 genji one tricks who consistently place in t500, 5 of which are alt accounts, again, it is not an assumption, one tricks matter especially, because that means they dont have to switch off their character cause they cant do ANYTHING.
strength is a large factor, but your forgetting popularity, both factors into pickrate and not just one over the other.
mhm.
ok lets just break it down from here and completely debunk your shameless arguments,
overbuff; genji is 6th most played hero IN ALL comp ranks.
echo is 16th most picked hero and tracer is 10th
now using purely math and stats, we are gonna calculate how many tracers and echos appear in t500 in ratio to genji and their pickrate in mind.
so i have manually counted the t500 EU leaderboards as of 2:58 AM February 2nd.
my findings suggest
genji- 77 appear in both 1st 2nd 3rd played heroes in mind, i mean like all slots in mind, but we wont talk about that later because you think that doesnt matter.
echo- 78 appear in all slots
tracer- approx over 280 appear in all slots.
now lets not talk about tracer yet, echo vs genji
genji is a 6th most picked hero and echo is the 16th most picked hero as of overbuff stats right now, the ratio between genjis pickrate and echos pickrate is G= 2.89% E= 1.05%
2.89%:1.05%
so we can say that the difference in pickrate is about 2.9 times greater than echo players,
so genji has a nearly 3 times larger player base yet is nearly in the same proportion as echo players in t500, that doesnt make sense, i thought he was just as strong as echo because of his pickrate am i not wrong?
lets talk about tracer, the tenth most picked hero, she has a whopping 280 approx. pickrate in t500, this would mean that although genji has a 2 times greater playerbase in overwatch than tracer 2.89%;1.87% tracer appears in t500 263.63% more times than genji despite having 2 times less the playerbase than genji, not only is that crazy disproportionate but it also becomes even crazier when you only account for the fact that only 31 genji t500 appearances are OTP’s and 5 of them of which I KNOW are alt accounts made by necros and shadder, so that factors about 26 truly OTP legit accounts that main genji to their heart, this also will go to prove that the only reason echo is being used is because shes viable, although echo appears more in t500 she is disproportionally smaller otp playerbase than genji, with only 10-20 approx appearing in all of t500, this proves that genji playerbase is a tryhard die hard playerbase that will only play their character, meaning that most of the OTP genji players that placed in t500 actually did drop out of t500 because their character lost an extreme amount of viability.
but still, even though tracer has a 2 times less player base than genji she still overpowers genji with even more OTPS, since ive already made the count for her general all slots we can already guess that her otp playerbase is far more as it makes up HALF OF T500 for all 3 slots.
so we will use your logic from now on, and summarise.
genji- 2.89% pickrate source;overbuff
tracer- 1.87% pickrate source;overbuff
echo- 1.05% pickrate source;overbuff
percentage difference between genji and echo, 1% pickrate difference G= three times greater than E
percentage difference between tracer and genji= 263% greater pickrate difference G= two times greater than T
so the fact is, the only reason genji is staying afloat in t500 is not viability, but his popularity factor, which is slowly dwindling as he was top 5 most picked heroes in comp and now he is 6th so he falls into top 10 most picked dps in overwatch, and even with that factor echo out places him despite being 10 heroes away in pickrate, and tracer DEMOLISHES genji placement despite being only 4 heroes away in pickrate.
I’m pretty sure it was universally agreed (with the exception of a couple delusional Genji one tricks) that season 1 Genji was broken.
No, but I know that Genji is in their top 3 most picked heroes out of 16 DPS which says enough.
All you’re doing is assuming their playtime on Genji is lower than their #1 and #2 most played DPS.
You can’t stand not being the best, it’s quite obvious.
It literally is an assumption. After I point out there were over 250 Genji players in S1, and over 80 in S2 top 500, how are you going to say only 15 of them are one tricks?
You have NO IDEA how many one tricks there are, 15 is just a number you pulled out of nowhere. I don’t argue things I can’t be sure of, but I am sure there were over 80 people in top 500 who played Genji.
I have no idea what you think you’re proving here but all this shows is that people in top 500 play heroes that are strong.
S1 Genji had over 250 players in Top 500
S1 Tracer had over 150 players in Top 500
Genji gets nerfed so less people play him and more switch to Tracer, now Tracer has a higher play rate in top 500. That doesn’t mean her overall pickrate is higher.
You’re comparing the stats of 3 regions (not just EU) on overbuff, in ALL ranks, with top 500 stats in 1 region.
Genji having a higher pickrate than Echo while appearing in top 500 the same amount of times means absolutely nothing. Overbuff pickrate includes all ranks. Echo might have (and clearly does) a higher pickrate in GM but is played very little in lower ranks.
it wasnt, it was universally agreed among GOOD players that genji was strong at an acceptable level, like he shouldve been in ow1.
it doesnt matter, cause you can play a character for 1 minute and another for 16 hours and never touch any other character and it would still appear as your second most on t500 leadboards.
what a great way to prove your argument bud.
i do, i did a manual count, there are 26 with the exclusion of alt accounts that i know of so the number can be anywhere between 10-26 depending on the alt accounts, almost every t500 player has atleast 1 alt account.
no, you missed my point, you are actually omega dumb bro, genji has a high pickrate among all ranks according to you, yet appears extremely low and disproportionally to tracer and echo, please read with your brain next time, and assess with your underdeveloped pre frontal cortex.
oh yeah, that means that tracer, a hero with a far smaller playerbase than genji, LOGICALLY appears more on t500, make it make sense bro.
ah, so you are admitting that genji has become dumpster tier so they are switching off of him in high ranks except one tricks, otherwise your stats are meaningless.
its means EVERYTHING, if people are playing genji MORE than echo yet echo appears MORE than genji in t500, it means that the character has been dumpstered to the point where characters with a objectively far smaller pickrate are outplacing him, not just how high in the leaderboard but in appearances too, if we go back in the thread and use your “logic” this would mean that genji is C tier purely OFF YOUR LOGIC.
oh so now your precious stats mean nothing because they dont agree with you, funnily enough your argument in the beginning was that genji was still appearing more than other characters in t500 but before that you even had the gall to claim that he was viable because of pickrate in general you get your argument disproven, then you change the narrative to t500 appearances, he gets outplaced by one of the least popular characters in the high ranks, suddenly you change your argument AGAIN to fit the narrative, you are very pathetic. If genji is appearing more in low ranks and FAR less in high ranks it means that the character is no longer viable WHICH IS WHAT THE ENTIRE THREAD IS TRYING TO TELL YOU, please, for the love of god, go to a doctor and get your thick skull examined and when they eventually find that wretched brain of yours which causes you to be as insufferable as possible, send it to a lab to be studied.
I never denied this, but it’s wrong to assume the majority of people with Genji in their most played heroes also do this just so it can benefit your argument.
Considering the majority have private profiles this is a flat out lie.
Like I said, you have no way of knowing this. What we DO KNOW is that over 80 people in the top 500 have Genji either as their 1st, 2nd or 3rd most picked hero.
All because Genji isn’t their first picked hero doesn’t mean they have little hours on him. Someone could have 40 hours on Echo and 39 on Genji and yet you’d assume they only played Genji for 1-2 hours.
That’s not how it works lmao. Like I said, you’re comparing Genji’s pickrate is every rank with how many times Tracer and Echo appear in top 500 in EU.
All because Tracer has a low pickrate doesn’t mean she HAS to appear less in top 500 than Genji. And it was only in S2 when she actually appeared more in top 500 then Genji.
You seem to think everyone has to one trick a certain hero. A large propotion of Genji’s pickrate is due to players picking him because he is strong and meta in S1, Tracer on the other hand was not.
As Genji became weaker, more people in top 500 switched to other DPS like Echo and Tracer, that doesn’t mean they should have a higher pickrate than Genji.
No it literally doesn’t.
Like I said, you are comparing the OVERALL pickrate in ALL regions and ALL ranks with the number of times a hero appears in the top 500 of ONE REGION.
Top 500 does not represent Genji’s immensely high pickrate.
Find where I ever said he is appearing more than Tracer or Echo?
I said he appears way more than the MAJORITY OF DPS.
I also never said Overbuff stats “mean nothing”, I simply stated a fact that the overbuff pickrate you are using includes all ranks and you think you’re proving some point by comparing that to top 500 in 1 region.
tell me a single GM player agrees with the genji nerfs, ill wait, not a single M-GM player ever thought genji was broken.
its wrong to assume most of them also play him, so lets not use this as a point at all.
that doesnt really matter, if they had to rely on echo to get to gm.
No, this would mean that a larger playerbase, has less players getting into t500 disproportionally less than tracer.
season 2 does not include the hours of season 1, people who play genji is because of his appealing gameplay, its why he dominates QP pickrate, cause meta doesnt matter in quickplay.
and again, your admitting that people were forced off genji because he got dumpstered.
it doesnt, however genji has a universally high pickrate, there really isnt any source to suggest otherwise unless you can provide it, the fact that he has a higher pickrate means that hes going to have more players entering from low ranks to high ranks, and if something is wrong with the characters power level, usually theres a huge drop off at the high ranks, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, meaning genji is dumpster tier and needs buffs.
you mentioned NA stats and they are nearly identical, i will literally go and manually count NA stats if you want, i guarantee you they are gonna have the same disproportionally sliced pickrates.
