Then everyone should support their tank and help him not die. There are just too many selfish players. No system is going to work. I just want comp classic and let me dive in with any hero and try my hardest. Leave all the role queue BS behind with people threatening to leave the game and/or sabotage matches. Just a horrible mindset. People should just bare with whatever is given, try their hardest, and hope for better changes tomorrow.
One more DPS is doing damage to the tank and no off tank to protect you ro the main tank
Currently off tanks protect both you and the main tank, and you’d have only 2 dps’s worth of damage coming through
The majority of Overwatch players pre-role lock experienced this. It didn’t end the world. Supports worked fine in 1-3-2, mostly cause most people are way better at DPS than they are at off-tank. It was tanks that got clobbered by it, cause they had to solo tank.
With more dps heroes, teams are likely to spread out more, making some supports either too inefficient or dps players getting angry at the supports for “not healing”.
Supports become primary targets to make sure key dps or the tanks can be taken down.
This is what happened years ago. There were threads about the “I need healing” spam. Supports saw lots of spawn room time.
On really bad teams, people would peel off around the map leaving the support to push the payload in payload maps, again making them an easy target.
Sometimes everyone else would get eliminated and the support was left alone until the end because of how spread out around the map people were. And the toxic crap you would get for that…I really hope it doesn’t come to that.
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I just came back from a break, what’s happening?
And it really sucked. It was never a fun thing. The most fun games in the past were always ones with 2 tanks. Playing solo tank is a nightmare. I’ve done it plenty and do not want to do it again.
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Prior to Role Lock pretty much every support had a decent pick rate and win rate. In an environment that was in large part 1-3-2.
The idea that supports were tremendously worse off in 1-3-2 was not a thing. The thing that killed the experience for Tanks, DPS AND Supports was the sheer RNG matchmaking that condemned 1-3-2 teams to go up against more organized 2-2-2 or 1-4-1 that led to a completely inconsistent gameplay experience.
I don’t support 1-3-2 especially, but judging from past stats, Supports are by far the least affected role.
Do you understand that that is in part due to mirror matching?
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This is happening. Jeff posted about an experiment they are doing by changing role queue to 1 tank, 3 DPS, 2 supports. And despite him not wanting people to freak out, many of us are freaking out.
Eh, I dunno, my favorite OW games were back when the game was roughly 2 years old ~ I think ultimately the problem with any of these systems is the restriction. It’s maddening to me, personally, that I’m stuck in a role when I could be a better X or Y and swap and help my team.
I think the option of a 2 tank 2 healer max limit, but no restrictions on anyone, would be a better option - and then incorporating some kind of guild feature because we need a reason to play and cooperate together, it’s clear by now that the player base itself is largely full of smurfs and trolls and everything, I don’t expect the average player to be like… Having your best interest at heart, y’know what I mean? So they need to give us more tools to play with the same people and not be punished for it, more social grouping always leads to interpersonal policing and that will help all of our gameplay experience because you can find a guild or group of likeminded people.
I’ve been playing since launch. And I gotta say that my favorite games even back then were when we magically got a 2/2/2 comp. My second favorite composition was 2/3/1 where we had a solo support. Third favorite was 3/1/2 where we had a solo DPS. But I really hated playing solo tank, truly. And I hated it when we had quad DPS. That sucked massively.
This is kinda interesting. Usually it seems that support players tend to take care of each other (and why the 1 support thing was such a failure) but a lot of dps tend to play away from the support so don’t have the positioning or peel to help reliably.
It’s true that if I notice my supports getting railed I will swap off of watever tank I’m using and pick up Road, Zarya, Winston. Tanks that I can just use to physically peel or respond at a drop of a hat to my supports getting flanked.
As a MT like Rein or Orisa you cant physically turn and peel 80% of the time because the second you even start turning your back to the enemy they will run you down.
Another reason not to want to solo tank.
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Mirror matches would drive the win rate DOWN, not UP.
Let’s try to remember actual 1-3-2 matches for a second.
People would pick something like Reinhardt/Orisa/Hammond + 3 DPS + 2 supports. The other team would either have the same or 2-2-2 for a fair match.
The DPS would have to play a little smarter than 2-2-2 and the Supports mostly clustered either around the tank or the team played some Mercy+Lucio comp that was very mobile.
Wasn’t game-breaking. It didn’t make anyone quit Overwatch.
What made people quit in the past was the ridiculous RNG that meant you could get 1-4-1 games multiple times in a row, or when you had DPS players in every role FAILING to perform.
More importantly, off-tanks WOULDN’T ACTUALLY BE DELETED FROM THE GAME. They’d just be moved to the DPS slot, most likely as utility DPS or something. You could still have Rein-Zarya or something, it’d just be a different power dynamic.
I think some of my favorite matches are actually 114, where we have one tank and one healer; usually I was healing, I mained heals for a real long time, especially back when I first started. I liked the challenge of it, but, this was back when Mercy had her five man res and you could really like, be actionable, as her?
I dunno, I just think ultimately the restrictive roles isn’t going to be the problem solver we want it to be. Right now most of my games don’t even feel real, because we’re constantly getting Ana’s that are trying to just play Widowmaker, or tanks that legitimately do not know what they’re doing or are just throwing. Like the other day I had a Rein that would do nothing but charge the enemy, and when asked to stop, he answered ‘But this is how you tank!’ - clearly just a troll.
The game is struggling for a lot of social reasons that I think aren’t going to be fixed by just sorting us in different quantities.
Thanks. I guess I’d have to try it to decide, but it doesn’t sound good to me.
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One of my concerns about 1-3-2 is that I don’t expect them to rebalance appropriately. I had foolishly thought that they would balance quickly for 2/2/2 because balance should be much simpler when you know exactly what you are going to get. That didn’t happen. Many of the Goats changes remain. If we change, it will probably be over a year of tanks being extremely weak and DPS being very overpowered.
My other concern is destroying the identity of the off tanks. I’m a D.Va main, which is part of the reason that solo tanking always sucked. I’d like her to be a tank, but she would need massive buffs. And I’m not sure she would be a tank after the shuffle which would require a rework. Either way, she’s probably a different hero and one of those means that I’m no longer a tank main which would be weird.
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The Damage Dealer posts in this thread are amusing for their complete lack of perspective on the play and challenges faced by Supports. It is almost as if they envision the role to consist of “healbot” plus “target”. I wonder why that would be…
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This has nothing to do with pick rates, and I’m recalling what happened much earlier in the game as was referenced in Jeff’s post about “feel”.
If the game feels like early Overwatch, they aren’t talking about just prior to role lock. But much earlier than than, we are looking at pre-GOATs, heck, perhaps Pre-dive era.
Back when supports complained when team members were spamming “I need healing” and were no where in range to be healed. Damage players complained that supports weren’t healing. When supports were practically deleted by dive dps because no one was watching the support line.
I don’t want those “early Overwatch days” back.
I also don’t want to see Dva reworked (for a third time) to learn a new play style with her. I would not want Zarya reworked to be a “main tank”.
Back then, while it may have been common for 1 tank to be on team, there were also no role locks. Players would sometimes switch to a second tank or switch around other roles for part of the map or to counter an aptitude or enemy.
None of that will be happening like it used to and I believe it will lead to more problems than solving. Namely the only problem being solved is reduced queue time for damage heroes.
I wonder if the devs thought splitting the damage category back up again?
By recategorizing certain heroes in the damage roster into 2 proper categories, the company would be 2-1-1-2. Queue times could be drastically reduced if the recategorization Was done properly.
Do you tank? Because if you do one tank sucks.
If they do 321, I hope they buff tanks and supports that have poor self defense. Mercy, Lucio, Moira, and Baptiste wouldn’t need changes. Ana, Zenyatta, and Brigitte should get survivability buffs.
Tanks should also be rebalanced to function alone, including reverting barriers. Off-tanks in particular would need significant changes.
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