“nerfing almost all DPS heroes” sounds about right. Latest big patch nerfed 11 heroes, including underperforming ones like Junk, Pharah and Symmetra.
Everything is going down.
If you’re going to listen to just McCree players I’m sure you hear how he needs 0.40 recovery rate, 1s stun as well a new ult that shoots unicorns made of gold.
Nevertheless I have enough experience going against it and TTK in this game is lower than freaking Apex Legends at this point thanks to over-bloated one shots that McCree and most of the roster can’t do squat about, deal with that then we may look at McCree in a fairer environment.
what am I not taking into account?
projectiles have travel time. if they’re slow, they take longer to reach a certain distance i.e. have more time for the target to dodge the shot. of which is not the case with hitscan since it’s instant i.e. what your aim is is what you get.
after working out the math, you’re right about soldier being able to do more with the same exact accuracy stat. but what I had in mind when I wrote that was how it’s inherently harder to achieve the same accuracy (and thus harder to get as much meaningful value) with soldier’s due to his spread i.e. the unavoidable rng error to the weapon on top of error from the player’s aim. whereas mccree’s weapon is pinpoint i.e. only having the player’s aim error.
when the weapon is pinpoint + having such burst capability (only needing to land 2~3 bullets on a squishy target to kill), fire rate matters a lot. like imagine if soldier had no spread, and then you started buffing his damage per bullet to approach mccree’s 70damage/bullet as well. like surely you’d see the problems that’d arise from that right?
mccree’s primary having the condition of “land 2~3 shots on a squishy in effective range” with no spread hitscan + a fire rate that can fit 2 shots in 1s is nowhere close to being trash at all.
1 bullet from mccree’s primay, if it lands, is 70 damage, 140 if head shot.
70 x 3 = 210 > 200. i.e. 3 shots landing.
140 + 70 = 210 > 200. i.e. landing 2 shots, 1 of which is a headshot
how is the statement “mccree needs to land 2~3 shots on a squishy to kill them” wrong here?
like we’re not talking about an extremely niche primary like sym’s where it’s got a boatload of pre-conditions to satisfy like charge up or too low effective range for her sustain and mobility here.
like what context are you referring to that negates the above condition for a kill on a squishy? healing and shields which many other comparable dps need to deal with too?
McCree is not fun regardless of his fare rate. Dude’s just your regular FPS point and click hero. Literally nothing about his kit is exciting in any way. He’s boredom made videogame character like every ranged hitscan.
Projectiles have big hitboxes and some of them have AoE damage. I play both types of heroes and hitscan is a lot harder than projectile by far.
Soldier’s spread is rarely used, the way you play Soldier is that you shoot then pause then shoot again to avoid the spread as much as possible.
You are not taking into consideration how the game actually works. People arent just standing there waiting for you to shoot them. Due to how the game plays out, McCree has a much harder time dealing damage than most other DPS, he has no sustain, defense or mobility and his ult is a death sentence more often than not. Most other DPS have a much easier time doing their jobs due to their kits, I play Soldier and whenever I dare pick McCree I feel how weak he is in comparison, the faster fire rate allowed him to compete with other heroes, now he can’t.
The fastest shooting in the world was done on a revolver. They are by no means slow in terms of fire rate.
A good example is Jerry Miculek. He shot 8 rounds in 1 second, which translates to a fire rate of ~ 0.14. McCree’s “machine gun rate” is painfully slow by comparison.
Even for an average Joe such as myself, my best times are on my revolvers as opposed to my semi autos.
Why would you expect anyone in the roster to have a gun as good as McCree? It’s the only thing he has in his kit.
Sym is an awful character that underperforms heavily and has no answer to many heroes. She’s as far from op as you can get. But still the rest of her kit craps on McCree. Her hitbox while stupidly big for her model size cannot hope to compete to the wall that McCrees is. Her head hitbox is much smaller. Teleport is way better than roll. Turret nest has far more potential value than stun, turrets can win entire defence points when the team plays around them. And I’d take her ults over McCrees in a flash. It’s an extremely good ult imo better than most dps. And shes still crap.
McCree has one of the worst kits in the game objectively. Imagine giving him Soldiers kit, or Pharahs kit, or Junkrats kit. He’d be way better. Possibly even op because with that much mobility a gun as strong as his creates problems.
His whole power is built into his primary fire. That’s the one reason anyone’s gonna pick him. If that’s the case would on earth would you expect it to unfavourably compare to other primary fires?
Sadly I just stopped playing McCree, he just feels awful to play, almost any other hero feels stronger. I play Soldier and the difference is huge between them, Soldier is much stronger than McCree right now and that says a lot about how bad McCree is.
I’ll use sym as an example because I have it saved:
albiet an extreme case, but it definitely shows how larger projectiles don’t really make up for slow projectile speed. if we’re talking bap nades or maybe echo shots in mid range then you may have a point (emphasis on mid range). having that extra layer of inherent error which many heroes have no little control over is a significant factor here. a factor which mccree simply doesn’t have.
yeah it builds up but you’d still get spread in despite doing that. I wasn’t ignoring that burst firing when I typed that.
and that can be said for when evaluating any hero. the condition of “mccree needing to land 2~3 shots to deal >=200damage for a kill on squishy” still holds. target moves? so can mccree and his weapon isn’t as impacted by movement unlike say projectile weapons are. target has a support? well so does mccree because this isn’t an asymmetric game and not to mention mccree deals hefty burst which is more resilient to heals.
then you’re tying to fix the problem with the wrong solution. fire rate isn’t the answer here. his weapon having higher firerate isn’t going to get him better angles more often. higher firerate isn’t going to give him more sustain. higher firerate isn’t going to make his ult not trash.
I have sym as 1 of my mains and you think I wouldn’t know about how “Most other DPS have a much easier time doing their jobs due to their kits”?
My position isn’t “mccree’s perfectly fine”. but I highly disagree with the notion of “he’s trash now that his fire rate got reverted” when his weapon is actually still pretty good. again, if you want to know what an actual trash weapon is like, play sym in ffa and don’t meme with camping in a nest. all the problems you’ve mentioned has nothing to do with fire rate but rather with the rest of his kit.
He is not really stronger than Mcree. The issue is that Soldier has less CD on the helix and 10 well placed shots, hitting even half of them but nailing your Helix, gives you an elimination in barely 1.2 sec. You cant do that with mcree unless you do headshots.
And if you do headshots, soldier is still faster, its like 4 bullets and the splash damage from the helix, which is 0.8 or something like that. Without Helix, Mcree is just a bit better, but not by much.
McCree hasn’t ever been a “must pick” for 5 straight months. And even then he loses more than he wins in ladder aka the team without McCree wins more often against the team with a McCree than vice versa.
https://i.redd.it/1f2t5rs9ioa51.jpg
McCree was actual metapick during Jan-Feb. Since then the real meta picks have been Tracer, Genji, Widow, Ashe and Echo. The chart isn’t up to current day but after Genji was nerfed Widow Ashe became meta and still is.
Yeah, McCree had his lane. In 2018. He no longer has a lane. He has to compete in his “lane” now, because new and reworked character are creeping into or just straight up outclassing him. On top of that, his niche use for stopping flankers has essentially been phased out. Tracer hits harder from range,genji cancels deflect, reaper tps faster and safer. Doomfist is incredibly resilient, but still counterable. So many characters have defensive/ disengagement abilities. What does McCree have? Not those.
I don’t think it’s awful, I think that the issue was that McCree was always meant to rely on it and they never changed that in an ever evolving game. Now his middle of the pack weapon can’t compensate for his dogcrap kit and ultimate, and the only choice is buffing it through the roof, or changing a part of the characters identity
