I think, instead of picking Perks mid game, we should get to equip them on our character in the Heroes Gallery. Similar to the Loadouts from TF2. There could still be an interface to select one mid game if you feel like trying something different, but we should have our perks figured out before the game starts.
TF2 also lets you switch weapons on the fly, but I know Overwatch’s fanbase couldn’t handle that. They can’t even handle counterswapping
This streamlining of the perks could open up new opportunities. Like creating a ton of perks for the character that changes their entire gameplay up. You know, for variety. Reinhardt could get perks that increase his debuff resistance, but weaken his shield or his ability to control his charge. He could get damage buffing perks that chip away at his range and ability to cleave; the hammer goes from a massive rocket hammer to a tinier (relatively) war mace.
I know people’s go to thoughts will be “what about game balance”, or “what about comp”, but the extra stuff an be excluded from comp. Even TF2’s comp scene has banned weapons. And I genuinely think we should stop worrying so much about the “perfect game balance” and start worrying more about a more fun game. I think we’ve all played long enough to tell the hyper focus on balance ironically ruined the game.
I think Freja and Sojourn’s kit would be more tolerated if EVERYONE was really powerful. Instead you get things like “Reinhardt shouldn’t resist debuffs because he’ll be a problem” and then “Sure, Freja can fly and do burst damage with insane mobility AND get more ult charge when she kills people (that might even work with her ult I think)”. There’s a disparity in what blizzard thinks “good balance” is and I think they should just try to balance for fun first and whatever “perfect balance” is second. This will never be some ultra mature tactical team shooter and I think people should stop acting like it can be.
They don’t like counter-swapping because they want to be able to play the heroes they like instead of Ring-Around-The-Roster.
Evolving perks in to something you could spawnswap and adapt to the situation without changing whole heroes (and without the locked-in commitment of the current system) would probably satisfy everyone.
I know why people don’t like counter swapping. I just also don’t think its justifiable. You can technically win on a disadvantaged hero, but counterswapping should still be an effective strategy. Especially if I’m on Reinhardt and you’re on something like Orisa. If you get upset that I swapped so that I wouldn’t get hard countered, you’re just a trash person.
What’s even the argument there? “No, stay on the same character and lose so that I can have the gameplay experience I want and you dont”? Selfish and should be ignored.
Making it the only strategy beyond massively outplaying the counter-picker is the pain-point, and just because you don’t like it being called a pain-point doesn’t make it any less of one for just as many people as you.
Why are you even framing it as an argument? The actual point is that Perks, in theory, solve all these problems. Like letting Junkrat trade spam for range as an alternative to just swapping to soldier to deal with a flier.
Swappiable Perks would just be another system of counter-swapping except it lets people actually play more heroes than the standard flowchart.
To be clear, my issue is that this “pain point” seems unavoidable. Either play better (including using your team to help you), or swap. What other steps can you take? Its like saying “The pain point is I have to drink water, or find another way to get my fluids”. What other hypothetical options would one have?
Well, it is an argument. Its an opinion. Counterswapping isn’t factually bad, its just a facet of the game people don’t like. They have to actively argue why its bad because the default position is “you pick the better character to win”.
"perks for the character that changes their entire gameplay up. You know, for variety. "
It’s factual that plenty of people don’t like being forced off their pick often because just one enemy hero can have that much of a disproportionate advantage over them.
Which is why I said Akshully people would probably really like the thing you said they wouldn’t like because they don’t like hero swapping- in the context of a perk system that would change a hero’s entire gameplay up, for variety.
“Why not make this game more like that other game?”
Probably because they want it to be more like this game and not that game. Since that game already exists.
Oh yeah, that’s an option. But I thought we were talking about the base game now. I get a little confused sometimes because I multi task my work and random forum discussions.
That’s not a bad point, but I think it depends on what you’re borrowing. People are already fine with TF2 like mechanics in the form of sentries, teleporters, Ana’s nade being EXTREMELY CLOSE to Jarate, Widow’s whole sniping mechanics.
I think it depends on how you implement something from another game. The wrinkle here would be you’re not giving weapons, but stats that changes the character. So my Reinhardt and your Reinhardt would be two different dudes.
Yeah, I don’t like the cases where it feels like a character needs to get perks unlocked just to feel complete. Bastion without self-repair feels pretty crappy to me. Meanwhile, someone likes Sigma feels proper right out of the gate, and his perks just add to a kit that’s fun even non-perked up.
I also don’t think it really adds to the game to have this stretch of time where everyone’s maidenless. Give us the sauce immediately, imo.
With the loadout thing, self repair could be a Level 0 perk. That would have it unlocked at the start, with maybe a downside? Bastions could be “Start with self repair, but your model size is increased by a certain percentage”
Since you have to wait for perks to unlock, the 1 and 2 perk levels could contain the real sauce. Imagine something like “at level 2, Bastion gets both the tank mode and mobile turret mode that you can use at will.” One click one be the minigun, the other would fire rockets for as long as you’re transformed. That’d be something.
Core issue: The moment the matchmaker is slightly off you are not a small disadvantage but a much bigger, not too mention that every mismatch across both teams accumulate, if you then add the volatile nature of the current balancing strategy into the mix you get the disaster we have.
That’s why I said “technically”. More often than not, you’re better off swapping, but that’s something perk loadouts would fix. Imagine if you could make your Reinhardt tankier to deal with Orisa, or more mobile to deal with doom. Swapping within a character instead of swapping to a new one?
Perks are so unbalanced, I don’t know why they bother making us pick them anyway.
Blizzard will be offering us one perk that’s pretty useful, and another perk that is literally a nerf to your character, and then stop us every single match to ask if we’re sure we want the useful perk.
They could still make perks more complex, so you have more to build into, but then that’s literally just Stadium but with fewer options.
But it’d be nice to have wider selection, like instead of 2 Minor perks you have 3 or 4 to choose from that change your gun type, like Bastion’s Tank perk.
This isn’t how perks are supposed to work though. It actually defeats the intent by the devs of having perks be dynamic things that you pick based on your current situation. I get that some heroes the perk decision is a no brainer. But I do play some heroes where depending on my team comp, the enemy team comp, or maybe even if I’m hitting my shots that game - the perk that I pick SHOULD be different.
I think honestly picking perks at the start of the match is a terrible idea. Maybe not the minor perk but the major perk at least should definitely be a mid-match thing.
Isn’t this just Stadium? And I don’t know about you but I kinda hate Stadium.
Sounds nice in theory, but the complexity will go through the roof.
I remember an article from the HOTS team where they explained the sheer complexity of balancing.
Blizzard has the institutional knowledge to pull it off, but the OW doesn’t have the resources.
I personally would like it to see them leaning into OW MOBA roots
Generally speaking, I think that’s fine. People play like they’re allergic to fun in Overwatch; they want all the boring characters to be good and all the fun/nonstandard shooter characters to be bad and they complain about things like Rez and IF because “I killed that guy, so he should be dead”.
You can’t even type in side chat without people going “OMG, stop talking and bantering with people in this cartoon shooter >:(”
I would feel ashamed if I developed a game with a fan base so allergic to fun.
They cant remove perks anymore, or balance will be broken forever. Also new arcade mode gave us better concept of round perks, i think this is more balanced than hero perks, because its apply same perk to everyone in the round, and nobody get advantage against others.
