No?
You can look at damage per shot and healing per shot and work it out.
75 damage per shot for viper, and 70 healing.
So, Ashe with the same accuracy will win out over Ana, and that is without headshots.
6 Likes
I agree but they still need damage nerfs. Illari being able to two shot squishies makes me desire death on a whole new level.
2 Likes
My gripe isn’t that supports beat me in a 1v1, it’s that they also negate so much of what I do to their teammates. If there’s a role that can 1v1 and heal, vs a role that can 1v1 but not heal, why play the second one?
Remove oneshots and reduce healing. Vote Feculator for council.
2 Likes
Reload times put into account or how nade is actually added into the equation?
Then we can dive further and see how often an Ashe and Ana live per life on average.
Take the huge down time Ashe had and her more limiting ranges and you get more issues for DPS compared to Ana who has less dowbtime and less range downsides. With a boost to healing.
You can even count Ashe’a dynamite into the equation if you want. But we both know Bionade counters it.
No.
And as always, Support bias/mains always find a way to blame it on DPS. Its amazing how denial works.
Here it is, everything you said, debunked:
2 Likes
Just ignore guardian. Dude is always on here asking for support buffs then downplaying any thread that even mentions support nerfs.
Just right now they’re playing the indirect game and trying to promote a mindset that supports are not power crept.
Sure, if you want to add them, and then look into what happens the moment you put in head shots, and McCree’s nade, I am MORE than happy to take you though the maths.
I’ll give you a hint, you can’t out heal the damage in the game. Never could, it is why people have to use cover all the time, even if the supports had perfect aim.
4 Likes
And the accuracy needed to get those headshots every fight issssss…
Here we go!
This is the problem of target prioritization.
You are trying to shoot someone else and that person shoots you, but now a support is healing that person. You are getting 1v2’d.
So play with you team in closer proximity and player heroes they can actually help support or you help focus fire the same things they are trying to focus fire with the right tools.
3 Likes
Is, unneeded, again, because the DPS out damage the supports.
Both Cassidy and Ashe beat Ana out on damage. If you want to add Nade, then add Nade for both, or look at FTH.
Seriously, what the hell is up with DPS players and the complete inability to even know their own heroes and then want to argue things like accurate rates and damage.
You make assertions which can be shown to be absolutely wrong, trivially by anyone who actually knows the damage of the weapons.
Then you are like “well what if Ana uses her cooldowns?”
So, if you want to do it with cooldowns the DPS STILL win out.
7 Likes
I can have good target prioritization as Illari/Zen/Ana etc, get similar results as a DPS, and save my teammates.
DPS can engage or disengage a little easier and that’s it. And even there you’ve got Lucio as a contender (granted his gun is piddly when compared).
Good DPS have the upport hand in the most situations. The problem are again also not “all supports” and rather Illari, Bap and Ana. All three can DPS as good as they can heal and Bap and Ana even provide crazy strong utility that wins fights regularly.
The problem in most cases here in the forums is that bad DPS mains cry when they cant kill a Brig or Moira, while whiffing all their shots.
6 Likes
The fallacies here.
“Dps need to get headshots!”
Meanwhile every support healing shot is being administered to the body.
For every bodyshot a support hits, a DPS needs to make a headshot to counter act that? That is problematic.
They literally don’t to out damage the supports.
Again… seriously what is wrong with you that you think it is the case?
They do not. They STRAIGHT UP DON’T.
Ashe does 75 on a body shot, and Ana heals 70.
Cass does 140 DPS on JUST body shots. Ana does less.
Again… DPS can’t do basic maths.
3 Likes
Yeah?
Cool.
Now how accurate does a dps need to be to out dps a mercy healing beam that doesn’t miss?
Or if the accuracy was even out how much does one need to pump into a 200 target to kill them?
I feel we need to experiment with this and see how support sustain elevates a hero’s lifespan.
2 Likes
fine lets reverse it, then you will see DPS REALLY REALLY scream.
They can get Mercy’s HPS in Damage where they don’t have to worry about missing, as long as they get that close.
And the supports do healing like the DPS do damage, with the DPS aim requirement.
I’ll give you a hint, nothing would die.
You can enjoy your 55 per second, where you have to be within 15 meters of the target.
And a support can stand behind the target utterly removing your ability to play.
And then see how much fun you get.
Isn’t that Moira except less forgiving than Mercy beam? Moira kills people…
Yeah, but not as well as the DPS heroes. S76 out ranges, and out damages her, so does Ashe, Cass, etc.
NerfHEDSHOTs decided to die on the “I make claims which if you run the numbers it shows I’m full of it” hill.
Let look at them
Which was 100% wrong.
So then tried.
Which was ALSO wrong, as already shown.
Seriously…
NerfHEDSHOTs can’t actually read damage per second, or damage per shot on the wiki. I’ll give a link for them so they can actually learn what the damage per shot and DPS of the heroes they are talking about.
You know, so they can stop embarassing themselves.
2 Likes
Ahem!
Ashe 12 round clip. 2.9 reload time.
Ana 15 round clip. 2.0 reload time.
75 to a body shot for Ashe. 70 for healing on Ana body shot. 5 value difference.
As many shots as Ana dumps into her teammate the Ashe needs to be not only outdpsing Ana’s healing, but needs to duel the target she is aiming at in the first place from a shorter range than Ana.
Considering these numbers. Ashe leads with a 60 dps difference to Ana’s healing.
But the 0.9 time ahead on reload allows Ana to recover that 60 point difference along with the extra 3 shots left in her chamber before reloading. Meaning Ana has more healing up time than Ashe does for dps uptime.
Now considering both are firing a fully clip endlessly this fight is lasting for far too long and Ashe only has 20p health herself so she’ll need a pocket herself.
Total number of bullets to delete that full 200 HP target for Ashe is 3 full clips and 4 extra shots on the fourth clip.
Headshots put into consideration. Ashe deals 150 damage per headshot which is already difficult to do in the heat of battle. Which brings about an 80 hp difference.
Which brings the need for 3 headshots back to back or nullfiy Ana’s healing.
The only way to overcome Ana’s healing here is purely through headshots back to back.
So were just ignoring how strong sups are against tanks with their utility and damage?
1 Like