role queue is used more, clans have no meaning whatsoever anymore since you can be in multiple where people don’t even talk to each others nor invite each others. Having friends to play with always triumphs over guilds, specially on a game like LoL where you end up stuck in a match that can last from 15 up to 45 min… imagine how that goes
It IS objectively better when we’re talking about around 20-50 minutes of a DPS game where a leaver will result in another 20-50 minutes of queue, all that for a 10 minute stomp sometimes. At least with autofill you can still trade roles sometimes, there are more than 3 roles and no hero lock and most of the heroes can be played in at least 2 different roles and also, autofilling guarantees your role for the next game with lower queue times.
You’re listing all of the upsides of League’s queue system, and all of the downsides of Overwatch’s role queue. It’s hardly a fair comparison. Queue times will always be longer at the top of the ladder, outside of peak hours.
Imagine waiting in a 20-50 minute queue, only for a dodge to restart the queue before the game has even started. Then when the queue pops again, you get a leaver and have to wait again. Then when the queue pops a third time and you finally get into an actual game, you get autofilled into a role you hate. Then when the queue pops a fourth time, you get play a role that you actually enjoy, but it’s a stomp and you surrender at 20.
And then you get to start the whole process all over again, in the hopes that maybe you’ll get one or two good matches after the 20-50 minute queue has popped 10 times or so. Sugarcoat it all you like, but that’s the reality of League’s queue system.
The grass is always greener on the other side. If you truly believe League’s system is better, than what are you doing here? Go play League.
Mind you… That function didn’t come with the launch of their queue system. That came around much later. Meaning they were able to take a long look at their system and say, “Yeah, this could work.”
I hope to see a similar function in OW.
I do also want to point out LoL is also the game that had a team builder (or I guess the same as our LFG) for more or less Quick Play… and just decided, “We’re getting rid of it now… Everyone is playing draft now.”
Soooo… Yeah. Grass is always greener.
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I don’t know that they have the time being honest. I was pretty split role before, but basically just tank/support now. Those queue times are not worth it to me - but I also find playing the same small pool of heroes boring. I’ve definitely played less since 2-2-2 because I love many dps heroes and while I’m happy to put in time on other roles I’m not willing to waste half a game of playtime every time I want to dps. If League already figured out a winning formula maybe it’s time to just try it. Biggest game in the world iirc.
You can’t queue as 5stack? Or did you mean something different by team builder?
You can be an impartial judge if you have clear view of both lawns if you play both games regularly, and one game’s objectively better sorting hat doesn’t make up the entirety of the game.
It’s just a sorting hat, it’s not the game. And more importantly, the whole point of comparing the two is to improve the one that’s lacking.
Again, there’s nothing objectively better about it. It’s a different queue system with its own set of upsides and downsides.
Overwatch’s Role Queue lets you play the role you want, every single game. It never forces an unwanted role upon you. If you have the patience to wait in the queue, you will always get the exact role you want. League’s queue system gives you no such assurance.
Eh… LoL was a really weird case for me. I absolutely loved the game (Braum, Zilean, Urgot, Twisted Fate 
), but I slowly just stopped playing it.
It’s too time consuming is I think the biggest reason why. The team builder functioned as you could build a team of 5 indicating what hero you wanted to play and where, or you could join a team indicating what hero you wanted to play and where… So yeah, if I wanted to play Twisted Fate in mid, it might take me 5m to build a team, but I was going to get to play who I wanted and where. They just said, “Nah, scrapping it.”
This then turned the game into… I’m going to try to play the hero I want in the lane I want… Oh. I didn’t get it… Cool. Now I’m in a game for 25-45min… and maybe I can try again? Oh, didn’t get it… now I’m in another game for 25-45min… I think I’m done here.
For OW. Okay… the queue timers can be a bit long for DPS, but honestly… I’d rather get some actual practice on a DPS character I’m wanting to play and learn in QP than what it use to be, where MAYBE I got some practical practice on the hero due to:
- Did my team want to form a functioning comp?
- Did the enemy want to form a functioning comp?
There were more cases of no than there were yes… So In a span of a couple hours, I only got a couple games that actually allowed me to practice said hero for improvement. Now it takes a bit longer to get into the game, but I’m more guaranteed I get the practice I’m wanting.
Sorry for the wall.
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This is objectively false.
You can’t cite something as being different when they’re literally stacked to be an apples to apples comparison. LFG vs LoL, maybe those are different enough to invalidate a comparison, but the current incarnation of role queue is as close to an apples to apples comparison as you can get, especially when matchmakers are generally a solved science due to League STANDARDIZING GAAS matchmakers.
Just because LoL’s community can be inflamed by smaller things doesn’t mean one isn’t better… comparisons in systems don’t use the populations using those systems. The presence of more features means you can tailor your experience moreso than the other system. In an apples to apples comparison for just features alone, League has more features, thus more customizability.
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The downtime being significantly shorter even on repeat offenses is objectively a better system for the player if they want to play the game, both psychologically, and by sheer playtime.
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Being able to pull players from a guild system versus not? Guilds wins.
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Being able to extend player invites to friends of friends? Better than randoms.
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No rank restrictions, no MMR sort for PUGs? Better for queue times than Rank restricted / MMR gated casual play (the mode is called Quick Play and can’t even live up to its namesake?)
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Role confirm through a fill incentive to keep queue times down? Better than no incentive at all.
These aren’t opinions. Any reasonable person would come to these conclusions if given the choice.
You don’t lose autofill protection when someone dodges.
Reducing the downtime from offenses also means that there’s not much deterring people from repeatedly bending the rules to their advantage. Repeat offenders usually go unpunished, to the point where an entire metagame has developed around dodges. As a developer, you should never encourage your players to disconnect at the first sign of trouble, but LoL’s queue system does exactly that.
These are the only points that I actually find valid. Overwatch could use these. But these are social features, not an actual integral part of the queue system.
If you really want a quick game so badly, Quick Play Classic is available to all.
You mean, like the loot box and credit incentives that Competitive gives you for queueing as a tank or support?
Actually, most of these are formed from opinions. Saying it’s objectively better doesn’t make it so.
Does LoL’s queue system allow you to choose the exact role you want, every time, without ever having to play an unwanted role?
No? Then LoL’s queue system is not, repeat, NOT objectively better than Overwatch’s. By definition, LoL’s queue system needs to be superior to Overwatch in every possible way in order for it to be an “objectively” better system.
Freedom to do more comes with people who liberally abuse the freedom, but the ability to make that choice is better than not having the choice. Full stop.
Objectively better does not mean “every possible way”. It means that it nets more positives over the thing it’s being compared to, with as little bias as possible.
Better =/= Best
Generally, it’s accepted that something with more features is better than not having those features.
League has more features, has more streamline systems for pre-queuing, lets more players queue up in more games, faster, without restriction, and guarantees that if you (and everyone else) wait out and behave you will get the experience you want the very next game and only slaps you on the wrist for 5 minutes if you misbehave.
The last detail about a guarantee is LITERALLY why Role Queue was implemented in Overwatch, because the old QPC couldn’t guarantee a role. Overwatch literally inverted their situation and went from one side of the spectrum with absolutely no guarantee, to the other where it’s a guarantee 100% of the time and comes with a huge side effect of long queue times. LoL solved this with a 70:30 split.
This isn’t an argument anymore. A sword can be a double edged sword and still be sharper than another, smaller double edged sword. None of these are mutually exclusive. One can be better than the other and can still be flawed.
Freedom gives the common man the power to abuse his fellow man. Flaunting the rules is very romantic right up until you’re looking down the barrel of a mugger’s gun.
Or to put it more simply, let’s imagine a day in the life of a League of Legends player.
Player: “Oh boy, the queue popped! Will I get to play the game this time?”
Game: “No, someone dodged.”
P: “Oh, maybe next time?”
G: “No.”
P: “This time?”
G: “No.”
Two hours later…
P: “Well, time for bed, too bad I never got to play the game. So unlucky that I ran into so many dodges.”
And if you were truly free from bias, then you would know better than to call League’s queue system “objectively” better, when the two systems function very differently, and both come with their own distinctive sets of upsides and downsides?
You’ve repeatedly downplayed the significance of frequent dodges and getting autofilled, when that’s been a major complaint on the League forums since the day the new queue system was implemented. If you were truly free from bias, you would not be picking a side here.
You’re comparing a sword to a spear and saying the sword is objectively better, when any objective weapons expert could tell you that neither is objectively better, and they both have advantages and downsides.
Nope, this is a strawman fallacy.
No, I’m not. A sword and spear would be LFG vs LoL.
Role Queue is literally a worse copy of LoL’s soft role queue. Pros literally begged Blizz publicly and probabky privately to just steal LoL’s system.
It’s a sword and a crude knockoff of a sword.
A knockoff is still a sword. It’s apples to apples.
No, it’s clearly not. I’m sorry, but I see no point in continuing this discussion when you’re so heavily biased towards League of Legends’ queue system. Go play League of Legends and leave Overwatch players to enjoy their queue system in peace.
For reasons listed below, this is very clearly a better system.
No, I’m not biased here, I’m weighing the pros against the cons, because while the cons are substantiative, the pro literally, from the ground up, is designed to combat the con.
When it’s functional design is made specifically to accommodate for players abusing the system, that’s a well thought out system that is better than one that pushes you to a whole opposite extreme without thinking about how to remedy the con.
See below.
Just because I disagree with you and have the receipts from Riot who already went through a transformation of a queue, years ago, doesn’t make me wrong.
I’m literally seeing history repeat itself, you’re just confusing it for bias.
Furthermore you fail to see the potential of getting a better version of LoL’s system in Overwatch, where Overwatch’s repeat penalties growing in severity discourage dodging, making the incentive for a guaranteed role that much more powerful, and reducing the frequency of dodging.
I see what’s you’re saying. Why did they take team function out? As a flex player who’s time across the three roles is relatively even I definitely prefer League’s solution. Because I don’t mind playing other roles, I just mind being punished for enjoying one of them to the point that I don’t think it’s worth it. Dps was already a role where I felt the need to leave comms most games (despite being 400SR higher on dps post role queue) if I wanted to maximize my chance of winning. By that I mean it was an often punishing experience despite my love of many dps characters and having to wait to experience that punishment with no guarantee of a good comp (if we fight two shield with 1 or 0 my ability to carry that game without being a doom fist main is roughly 0%) and a huge queue to make ‘good comps’ It’s just not worth it. Which has really reduced my desire to play.
I would understand why if you’re trying to practise a particular hero or role it would be frustrating. It’s also a little weird for an esport game since role flexing is very rare (at least in OW pro league idk about LoL). Sounds like having both role queue and team builder was a perfect solution. Any idea why they took it out?
Best guess. They wanted to push for LoL’s more competitive side.
The mode they took out was their standard queue where there aren’t hero bans and one person could play one character (both teams. Meaning you lock in the character the other team couldn’t run them).
And, to my knowledge, there was never team builder classic. However, I stuck around a very infrequent 2yrs after they removed it. It could very well have been implemented in the year or so I just haven’t played the game.
Ah I see. I think actually draft system is important for MOBA so I can see that. Is there no team builder where people just choose their roles (so they’re all guaranteed to get the role they select) when they highlight what they’d play ideally but then go through normal draft? That’s kinda more what I expected.