tank synergies that are impossible to nerf (such as double shield, but not only);
queues for tanks too long;
main roles vs off roles (tank, but also supports);
in the patch notes they were the most nerfed/abused heroes;
in the meta they were the heroes most blamed compared to supports and dps;
now, if you are someone who finds the “bring back 6v6 and the game will be saved” solution functional,
why would going back to 6v6 also mean not having to deal with exactly the same old problems?
try answering this simple question WITHOUT mentioning “how wrong 5v5 is” in your opinion. I’m really tired of reading people who simply say “but 5v5 is…” ,I don’t care how much better or worse 5v5 is, I want to know HOW the old 6v6 problems could be saved today in your opinion. Thank you.
very comprehensive on the part of this “”“forum”“” in liking a comment (the only one) that doesn’t respond or argue anything. I’ll save this topic for the next “bring back 6v6 ”
Because none of these issues were solved. Game is still pretty limiting on which tanks are viable st the same time and we instead keep overbuffing singular tanks so they dont feel like complete garbage to play. So similar issues but 1 version was more fun.
You are assuming 6v6 = 222vs222, which imo has huge difference
True, so they should have released more
I don’t recall a significant rework on tank
Because they are poorly designed for whatever reason, probably to make other roles feel happier? I was a flex before Role Q and flex (=tank main) after RQ so IDK
What’s the problem?
More or less the same at least on forum. IDK about strimmers’ opinions
None of those pointers will make sense to a person who doesn’t have sense.
There were only 8 tanks to choose from, and most weren’t very good patch to patch. Only maybe half the tanks (4) were really viable at a time, and that’s being generous.
Tank synergies were impossible to balance.
Long tank queues doesn’t make sense, you’re right about that. But other queues were long because of the lack of tanks.
This was a big issue. If one of your tanks locked in Roadhog (which was often) and the other Tank player only played off tanks (zarya/Dva) your team was probably in for a bad time. Same with supports. You typically wanted a main healer/off healer combo so your team had good sustain but also utility. Like, you wouldn’t really want Moira/Mercy together because that’s just a lot of heals and not much utility. You also wouldn’t want Zen/Lucio together because that’s not a lot of heals for the entire team.
This was also true. Tanks were neutered because OP tank synergies forced them to be.
This was also true. Tank players were flamed for either playing a duo that didn’t synergize, playing an off meta duo, or just playing the duo poorly with bad execution.
many meta’s usaully took new heroes to get rid of, or entire format changes.
As seen with open que double winstons, tracer, lucio. Which forced hero lock.
Dive had multiple nerfs to it’s line up, with sombra, moria being released to act as counters, which didn’t work so they nuked it with brig.
Bunker forced Muaga to get swaped out with Sigma, as his ult would completely break apart such.
And goats needed 2-2-2 to patch it out of the game so tanks wouldn’t needed to be dirt tear in any format that wasn’t staking three of them with three supports.
Their was also not a lot of players that wanted to play “main tank” such as rien orisa. So we would get a lot of zarya/d.va/hog players in the same que. With no experience on their partners.
Tanks were one of the most nerfed roles in general. Like across the board.
So ya most of them do make sense under the context.
the only one that was off is the tank que bit, as their ques were quick. While dps even in gold would sit for 20 minutes.
Some of my input: I don’t think Brig was even needed - when Mercy was picked 100% during S7 or S8, I saw and played so many different and weird combination.
She being such a big condom really salvaged the game in terms of diversity of characters
No one probably except Dumbfist was super dominant
Why do you always think just because 6v6 = Double Shield? how about current skills are the same but the Tanks abilities gonna get tone down / hp decrease.
Q Times wont be a problem anymore since Overwatch 2 is on steam and its F2P Already
So dive was meta for like… 2 years without much competetion. Outside of some goofy stuff with the mercy rework and really overly buffed junkrat.
people were sick of it at the time. And the only other option comp wise was like rien/zarya in functional synergy. And they only had ult plays when up against dive.
Winston, d.va were repeatively nerfed. And many of their attempts to counter dive. Such as with a “anchor tank” as the devs put it in orisa, who ended up being none playable and just pumped with stats because her kit was easily gotten around.
Sombra that got absorbed into dive.
Moira who did act as casual answer to dive for being someone that didn’t die easily to them, didn’t really make any impact at the comp level.
And eventually brig. Which at first dive teams could still get around because focus fire the brig in a 5~6 and just delete her from the game. Then clean up the rein comp that she was propping up.
It’s why we saw reworks to how her healing worked, and a few small buffs to her kit prior to goats being a thing.
People complain about their tank now more than ever, so none of this really defends or attacks 6v6 whatsoever. Except now the tank players are ALSO complaining, so yeah… take it for what you will.
No not at all, this is mondain compared to what was like outright war back in the day.
We would have 400 plus reply heated debates about d.va’s DM by it’s slef. Let alone the fact that like 2/3 of the roaster wasn’t playable in most situations.
These days it’s mostly 6v6 complainers, and people that are not wanting to learn various heroes kits and matchups.
As like the tanks have all the tools they need to win most match ups, doubly with so with team coordination.
No one had an issue with tank variety, both Tank and Support both just had smaller hero pools, they still do, people still want more even in 5v5. This has nothing to do with 6v6 and entirely with what role Blizzard prioritized when making new heroes.
Tank synergies were never impossible to balance, not once were they ever, Blizzard just refused to do their job for 3 years to make this pathetic shop update of a sequel. Stop making things up, its pathetic. If youre trying to say previous meta’s were impossible to nerf I hate to tell you this but by nature of the fact that Overwatch had only a billion other meta’s before double shield, it would seem they were in fact possible to nerf. Only GOATS ever actually showed to be truly problematic in a difficult to address way.
There were a million other ways to address tank queues, such as but not limited to: Addressing what drove tanks away from the role, aka CC, which Blizzard did in 2. Such as going to free 2 play, like they did. There were a litany of steps that could have been taken to address tank queues, Blizzard didnt do ONE. They intro’d role Q and then never tried a singular thing ever again to address the problems tank players had. They went nuclear for their first option. Thats called being inept.
You have literally no basis for that LMAO. You physically cannot prove they were the most nerfed role, and even if by some magic they were (which Im betting they werent) they were still the most powerful role in the entire game. Tanks controlled OW1 just as much as they do in OW2.
That has to do with the fact that they were still, in fact, the singular most important role in the game. If you had eyes youd see they’re still the most blamed heroes, that hasnt changed in the slightest. If anything they’re blamed more than they ever have been. Feeling an absurd amount of pressure to carry games has been the second biggest complaint for Tank players since the game came out, the first one being counter swapping.
6v6 had balance issues, and 5v5 has format issues. The problems of unfun synergies could be balanced out. Those are called Meta’s and OW2 hasnt had any less metas than 1 did. The literal ONLY issue with 6v6 was queue times, which were only ever attempted to be addressed ONCE with priority passes, which was a dog water system. They never tried to address why tank players dropped the role once.
The reason it could work is because Blizzard has significantly changed their philosophy on how to manage the game. Under 6v6 they did not view the game as a live service like they do today.
They are much more active in balancing and quick to stop particularly bad metas like the Mauga meta in S8. Under 6v6 Blizzard was slow to patch and the patches themselves often didn’t do enough to shift the meta. Double shield was a balance issue between the shields themselves and back line suviveability being too high.
Blizzard has also shown that making a role more fun does get more people into the role. Support went from the least popular to the most by addressing issues support players had with being singled out and surviveability. Such efforts never took place while the game was still 6v6. The biggest issue of CC-stacking wasn’t addressed until 5v5, but at the same time introduced the issue of tanks getting focused by counter swaps.
At the end of the day, double shield was a balance issue, counter-picking the solo tank is a format issue.
Outside of a handfull of maps, there was usually only one set of tanks that was viable at any given time.
Dive was the be all end all for like 2 years, before brig was a thing. And even then could get around her via a hard 5~6 focus fire attempt onto her, till goats was a thing.
Yet we needed multiple format changes, and characters to act as hard counters to said strats.
Bunker only died because of sigma’s addition, goats/ open que double winston/tracer/lucio only died because of hero lock/222.
CC was a needed evil to create openings between layered tank tools, without it it would just be shield watch 24/7 without much really to get around such other then just raw damage output. or tools that just ignored barriers outright.
OW wiki and the offical patch notes, have a log of every hero changed made. Every tank has been majorly nerfed, power shifted, and or had major combo’s / hero interactions nerfed around them that allowed them to be strong individually.
In the sense 6v6 ran off of overpowered tank synergy. where as now their more or less fat DPS that mostly just need to get their team into a space then kill things while their.
It’s the exact reverse really. Nearly every hero is viable to play in 5v5, and can maintain a healthy winrate even in GM. In 6v6 we had to patch out the fact that sym’s and torb’s were sitting in GM with 30% winrates, because the system only valued how well you played the hero compared to other players on said heroes. And not like their actual winrates.
And like a 2/3 the cast just fell out of GM, once winning became the only way to rank up post diamond.
Let players choose what they want to play, then both sides will be happy. Players like myself who left due to disliking 5v5 will return. Blizzard will gain more players to make money off of.
The “don’t cares” will queue to whichever mode has the shortest queue times. Regardless of which side “wins” the war, both sides win regardless because there is still a mode for them to enjoy. I know Iwould rather have longer waiting times in my preferred queue if it turned out to be unpopular than to have no queue at all.
” in your opinion. I’m really tired of reading people who simply say “but 5v5 is…” ,I don’t care how much better or worse 5v5 is, I want to know HOW the old 6v6 problems could be saved today in your opinion. Thank you.
“”“forum”“”
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5v5 + 6v6 