I Have a Question

[Cyclick-11939]

In the off-chance a Dev is reading this… I’ll just spit it out now.

Why update so slow?

We as a community have been asking this forever. I’ve never seen an in-depth reply, though, barely one at all. But why do you update so slowly on games like Overwatch and Hearthstone? (I imagine other Blizz games as well)

For high Competitive potential, updates need to be quick, at least quicker than on a 1-3 month process. Look at the others. LoL, Dota, CS:GO (not regularly updated anymore because CS:GO is balanced pretty much) hell, even Fortnite.

Competitive games cannot last as long as intended if you don’t update it faster, don’t patch bugs. Let’s take some examples.

Overwatch: Sombra, and many other characters’ bugs that haven’t been patched for MONTHS.
Overwatch: Insufferable months of terrible meta’s and unbalanced (whether UP or OP characters) heroes.
Hearthstone: EXTREMELY slow updates for nerfs. (See Cubelock, Crystal Core Rogue, Pirate Warrior, Midrange Shaman)

There are off the top of my head, I’m sure I can think of more.

Now, such a small, niche indie company can’t possibly have a highly productive dev teams with updates every 2-3 weeks or so, right? /s

Blizzard is so highly profitable it’s ridiculous. Look at Hearthstone, that just had a (hype-filled and very exciting) expansion released. 80$ for 80 packs, a golden legendary, and hero portrait. 80$ sounds like a lot, right? Of course it is, but I, and MANY others are going to buy it. So many people play Hearthstone to where the SHOP is barely working on expansion day. There is no lack of money in Blizzard’s vaults.

I get it, capitalism, more money, money, blah blah. But Blizzard you’re failing to see having a better and more productive Dev team will INCREASE money, because more people wanna play it.

Let’s look at Fortnite (I know, I know, bad comparison, whatever.) Epic Games is way smaller than Blizzard on a company scale, yet theyre the most played video game right now about, make tons of money, and guess what? Updates come every week or two.

Updating a game and keeping it balanced, fun, and fresh = more people playing it which = MORE MONEY.

I stopped playing a couple weeks ago because the game isn’t fun anymore to me. t isn’t, and people can agree that sometimes, most of the time, it ISN’T fun. Other people have definitely quit to, whether they whine on the forums before doing it or not.

What would DEFINITELY get be back into this game is more regular updates, refining the game, making ti better, having it stay balanced, I would, and others would surely come back.

Now, I love Overwatch. I love it so much. The last thing I want is this game to crash and burn or die. I just want to play it again and have fun.

I love you, Blizzard. I love you so much.

There is always room for improvement.

Forum Moderator Note: Calling out the development team in your title or post is against our forum guidelines. Please focus on discussion of the feedback in your thread.

[Kaedi-11739]

New patches are around 500 to 700 megabytes, with some patches as much as 13 Gigabytes. Even with the fastest of Internet Connections it takes time to download. That is why update is so slow.

Okay trolling aside…

Now if you are asking why updates as in new patches are few and thin? They have their reasons. I will pull up a blue post for you in a bit.

[Cyclick-11939]

You cheeky [Edited by Blizzard] lol

Forum Moderator Note: While this was meant in good fun, masked language is still not allowed on the forums for any reason.

[Bizzurk-11617]

edit: sorry, wrong thread!

[ChivasUK-1987]

Lack of content has always been a formal complaint here, releasing content is not on blizzard radar. Wish they were like HiRez, Paladins is getting another champion. (33) and 3 more maps.

[ImJustBait-1127]

you do realize that blizzards games have individual teams, no?

[Cyclick-11939]

SMITE and LoL is a great example. between 90-120 Gods/Champions and VERY balanced (in comparison to Overwatch, Luck Foki), and we’re sitting here with 28 and clear unbalancing in place that plagues this game for months on end.

[Kaedi-11739]

Okay found the darn big post from Papa Jeff from one year and 3 days ago. Please read this…

I’ve been reading the feedback regarding the current metagame and a general desire for “radical” balance changes to mix things up. I’ll offer some of my personal perspective but I’m a little nervous doing that for a few reasons. Even though I am the Game Director and a spokesperson for OW, I don’t make decisions in a vacuum and I am only one part of a very awesome team. Not everyone on my team agrees with me and we have different opinions on the state of game and balance overall. We do have a lot of alignment, but we talk things through – a lot. And we don’t always agree. So I know this will become the “official” response on the subject but I am really offering this from a very strong personal viewpoint first and foremost.

The most controversial thing I’ll say here (hopefully) is that I believe the game is currently balanced. What I mean is that I don’t feel like there are any heroes who are way too strong to the point of breaking balance. That doesn’t mean that I personally don’t think there are some problems with heroes. While I believe moving Roadhog away from a 1 shot combo was a necessary thing we had to do, I’m not entirely satisfied with where he’s at right now. I also think we need to do some brainstorming when it comes to Mercy’s resurrect, for example. The ability is extremely powerful in a very unfun way for both Mercy and everyone playing against that Mercy. But it’s not doomsday. These aren’t game breaking issues. They are better fixed slowly and carefully as the overall game is not ruined by them. I’m just using these as examples.

But I think the game is balanced. Statistically, the things that are most unbalanced aren’t what you think they are. Symmetra and Torbjorn win rates are not balanced. They are too good. But this is why we don’t balance on statistics alone. I don’t sense a great community uproar over the fact that Torb and Symmetra are “overpowered” right now (at least, statistically).

As I said last week, the perception of balance is more powerful than balance itself.

I really do not like summarizing the feedback from a large community because I think it’s unfair to so many people. But in general, I am getting the sense that the real issue people are feeling is that the “meta” does not shift as frequently as they would like. My sense is that players start with the pro scene and work their way down and base this feedback mostly on pick rates. In the pro scene, it’s true that the teams settle into using a subset of the hero pool. We tend to see high level (let’s just say the top 3rd of all players) competitive slowly catch up to the pro scene with some considerable lag of weeks if not months. The rest of us – the vast majority of us – don’t really play this meta at all but we’re aware of it either through community discussion or because we enjoy watching the pro scene.

There are a lot of ways the meta can change but if I had to boil it down to three main ways (that we see in video games at least) I would point to 1) something changes with the balance 2) players innovate new strategies 3) the game forces meta change through mechanics.

To comment on all 3…

I like when the meta changes on balance only when the game is not balanced and something was adjusted to make the game more balanced. Another way of putting this is, I do not agree with the philosophy that we should just make balance changes solely to shift people off the meta. The game team should be constantly evaluating balance and making changes that are actually needed because a hero is unbalanced. But making changes to a hero because their pick rate is too high or too low is not my idea of responsible game balance. Symmetra’s pick rate is very low right now. We could make changes to make her a “must pick” in the meta (and thus shifting the meta) but I feel like, if anything, I am concerned about Symmetra’s balance and worried that when she does eventually make her way back into the meta she is not balanced properly. So to summarize: balancing heroes who are unbalanced is good, balancing heroes just to make them picked more or picked less is not good (in my humble opinion).

Regarding the meta changing because players have innovated a new strategy – well – this is the best-case scenario. We’ve seen this happen time and time again. This usually happens in a pro tournament where a team pulls out a new strategy and performs well. This was how triple tank rose into fashion. Innovating out of a meta is extremely hard. All players are very different. Some are highly creative and some are excellent at executing. Some at both. Having the time and freedom to innovate on strategy is difficult no matter what level of play you’re at. Pros have busy schedules and it’s not always easy for them to practice new, out of the box things – especially if their tournament schedule is hectic. But when all is said and done, to me personally, the meta shifting because players innovate is the best possible outcome.

Lastly, a game can force a meta shift through mechanics. The MOBA genre has huge hero pools yet without pick and ban systems teams would inevitably play the same comps over and over. The game – through the mechanics of picking and banning – is forcing variety. We could do this in Overwatch. We could prevent certain heroes from being played some or all of the time or we could let your opponent prevent you from playing your desired hero. We could also force you or allow your opponent to force you to play a hero you don’t want to play. Personally, I am not a believer in these systems for OW (while I understand and respect why they use them in MOBA). I prefer to think that OW allows you to be creative which is different than forces you to be creative. I don’t want to watch the best Genji player in the world play Zarya – I want to see him/her play Genji. And also, seeing how many of you “main” heroes because you love them, I don’t want the game – or your opponent – telling you you’re not allowed to play that hero.

We recently added 6v6 Elimination to the Arcade and I think the mode is strong enough to exist in Quick Play and Competitive. That mode is a good example of a mechanical “forcing function” where the game causes shifts to happen in pick rates and team comps. The winning team is forced to play 18 diverse heroes. I would be willing to bet that if that mode was considered competitive, eventually a meta would settle in where 18 heroes were mostly picked and 7 would be rather neglected. Again, I don’t think this is horrible or the end of the world – I think it’s reality.

There are games with a set meta that evolve very slowly or remain stable for long periods of time and this doesn’t mean the game isn’t balanced or fun or fun to watch. Most of the pro sports fall into this category. TF2 was largely played Demo/Medic/Scout/Scout/Solider/Soldier and that was sort of just… accepted. It was fun to play and fun to watch. Baseball isn’t terrible or broken because every team puts their strongest batter 4th in the lineup.

But maybe I am off on what the expectation is from players here? I know the desire – and mine too – is that during every match of Overwatch all 25 heroes are viable at any time. The reality of gamers and video games is that any perceived (whether real or not) advantage is going to cause players to assume that they must play hero x over hero y. A professional Overwatch player will not player hero x if he/she thinks hero y is even 1% stronger. We can balance the heroes to equality but if there is the slightest perception of advantage, it won’t matter.

Looking at the perception of the meta, it’s obvious that “dive” is the predominant strategy. Correction. It is the predominant strategy being used in the professional scene. The majority of Overwatch players play Quick Play as their primary mode. The top 6 picked heroes (over the last month) in Quick Play are Genji, 76, Hanzo, McCree, Mercy and Junkrat. For the statistical majority of Overwatch players who are not pros and don’t play Competitive, this is your meta.

It drives players crazy when I post stats like that because they want to know about Competitive and not Quick Play. The point I am trying to make by posting Quick Play is that the numbers show that that is what the majority of players are actually experiencing which is different from perceiving. But looking at Competitive only… here are the top 6 picked heroes: Mercy (by a long shot), 76, D.Va, Lucio, Ana and Genji. Interestingly, number 7 is Reinhardt. Next tank after that is… Wi… no Roadhog. So in the past month in Comp, that’s what you’ve been actually playing.

But let’s talk about the elite players… maybe the top 3rd of all MMR. Their top picked hero over the past month was…. Ana. Yes, Ana.

I don’t mean to discount your fatigue with the “dive” meta but I also want us looking at from a realistic standpoint. Dive itself is an interesting comp. It’s fun to play and watch. It features super high skill heroes doing very OW things. Watching top Genji’s and Tracers is fantastic. I don’t think dive comp is bad but I think what players want is to see more comps in addition to dive comp. I too would love for this to happen. But in a non-forced, non-damaging way. I don’t think we should just throw a balance grenade at the heroes to change pick rates. And I don’t think long-term for the game it’s good to start imposing restrictions on you as to what hero you’re allowed or not allowed to play. I think we also need to be careful about demanding drastic change. A few months ago we nerfed D.Va and we faced the ire of many very upset players who thought we “ruined” the hero and she would never be played again. There was mega thread after mega thread demanding she be buffed. We held our ground because we believed she was fine. We did not touch her. And now she is one of the dominant heroes in the dive meta – clearly not in need of a buff.

Players think that every change we make to hero has the intent of buffing or nerfing that hero. Changes to heroes are usually made to make the game better. That’s what we were trying to do with Roadhog. Our goal wasn’t a nerf – our intent wasn’t a nerf. Our intent was to try to remove a behavior that had become “not ok” with our player base – the one-shot combo. Maybe he needs to be adjusted again? Probably. I am just using this as an example that not everything is super black and white. There is a gray area in making the game feel good. Sometimes we need to hold our ground and not make dramatic swings to the game.

I know this post will be met with a lot of disagreement. The desire for dive comp to go away will not be satisfied from some of you until Winston and D.Va are nerfed into the ground. But we’re not going to do that. We are going to make balance changes to heroes when they need it – and we do this more frequently than you give us credit for. 3 months from now there will be a new meta. If you’re the type of person who feels like the meta should shift every 2 weeks, then you’ll probably be sick of that meta and wishing it was back in the good ol’ dive comp days… I just caution against wanting change for the sake of change. The meta will shift soon enough.

Source: Overwatch Forums

[ChivasUK-1987]

Like I said, we have complained about this, they don’t even care for consoles.

[DVS-11435]

Blizzard’s reason for slow updates is that they only tweak 1-3 characters at a time every 2 months or so because they want to closely monitor those changes and see how they turn out.

This is of coarse sucks. There is no reason we couldnt have frequent updates with small changes to a lot of the characters that need tweaks.
I mean we can make these changes to characters damage or cooldowns in a custom game. It doesnt take high payed game developer to do this. It isnt something that should be hard to do.

[Krisp-11594]

They probably don’t update as often because they have to pay to update the console versions of overwatch as well.

[anon78126316]

Because if they do it slowly, they get to keep up the charade known as PTR.

[Cyclick-11939]

SMITE.

20 characters

Edit: For some real knowledge behind what I say, SMITE is the same on console (granted some update delays) but it has an entire legitimate competitive scene behind it. HiRez is also WAY smaller than Blizzard.

[Kaedi-11739]

I will note that SMITE and League of Legends are MOBAs, Overwatch works very differently. Yes, even considering the devs can change numerical values like damage dealt or the likes.

[Cyclick-11939]

Still competitive games that are wildly popular. You can’t compare them directly, but it’s more of a look that this smaller company with a still VERY large playerbase can keep their playerbase more happy and the game more balanced, but Blizzard can’t nearly as well.

[Kaedi-11739]

Unfortunately I must view that as a matter of opinion. I just took a peek at SMITE’s official forums right now and I see just as much hyperbole and banter for that game in those forums as I see here.

If you want to see how much life Overwatch has, I encourage you to look at places where we as a community have fun with Overwatch. For example, watching an Overwatch League match live is one of the most thrilling experiences you can do as a fan of Overwatch, not because of the competition itself, but because of its community. Same goes with attending an Overwatch Flash Ops event at your local Microsoft Store or visiting a convention that has the Overwatch Payload Tour stopping by.

[Zorek104-1571]

Is because game balance is not high priority to overwatch developers boss.

Just see…

• tank meta 4.months
• dive meta 1 year
• no mercy = no win 6 months.
• Pharahmercy on console… 2 years?
• grav + hanzo+ mercy 3 months.

Anyway the problems arent the meta. The real problem is the duration of each meta. Play the same stale meta for a minimum of 3 months…

[Cyclick-11939]

1. I don’t go outside much for (very) personal reasons.
2. I do watch the OWL regularly. Extremely excited for the Playoffs today/
3. Basing everything off looking at FORUMS?! Cmon, both of us know that’s a stupid thing to do that doesn’t work. You gotta play a lot to really know.

[Kaedi-11739]

Basing everything off looking at FORUMS?! Cmon, both of us know that’s a stupid thing to do that doesn’t work. You gotta play a lot to really know.

I have not played Smite, but I do regularly play other games (Blizzard Games and other publisher’s), every game has strengths and weaknesses and many support a unique and healthy community. But each game is different in some way. Overwatch is successful, and today it is better than ever. Balance does take a while but I believe Overwatch benefits better because of it. Again as Jeff said, change for the sake of change is not always a good thing.

[Cyclick-11939]

More or less change for the sake of it being a really fun game to play.

Also, Overwatch peak has been long passed. It definitely isn’t better than ever. From a veterans viewpoint, it was season 2-5. Good times, makes me tear up thinking about it.