If you come here with a cookie recipe and one part references my post…I will reply to the part relevant to me. If you want a rework symm thread…go for it. That isn’t this thread.
I already think this. That’s why I emphasize I don’t want her even further.
I consider 3.0 and 2.0 to be Ashe and widow. Sure similar. But different heroes. I would not want to make the next change Ashe v widow v Zen
Don’t see why people are against her being a healer. You NEED a healer on your team, you can’t have situations where you have two supports that can’t heal, it’s like having two off tanks but worse.
Just make her an off support that heals and has utility.
Zen can do it, Lucio can do it, why not Sym? Not like she’s any better as a DPS.
This is a very accurate way to describe the situation. I’ll use it when I’ll have to explain to someone for the 4123245th time how Sym 3.0 is not Sym.
LMB has 2.0 tether.
RMB has 2.0 orb. Adjust for meta, as the meta is now faster.
Turrets back to 6. Damage halved. Allies can see turrets as well, so that the information they give about enemy positions does not need to be communicated with mic (as Sombra does with healthpacks).
Teleporter is gone. Make a Heal Station that is permanent and uses a charge system to rapidly heal allies in range, make the range smaller than Lucio Crossfade.
Ultimate swapped to personal charge teleporter. Sym targets an ally with her ult to teleport, gains “ammo charges”. Allies can accept teleport, but Sym and Ally need LoS of each other. Again, allows communication without mic and reduces troll opportunity which is what makes people salty.
If you REALLY think she needs more healing, allow her turrets to heal for half the hps that their dps is. So you have to choose between informational turrets, or ally heals. To balance, only one turret per ally. You cannot “car wash” your allies. Look. Tada. 5 seconds of thinking. Very little has changed. Old assets are used. This could probably be worked out, and put into experimental in 3 hours.
I don’t want Sym as a support either. She never was effective as one so the last thing I want is more people playing support with a history of not actually supporting but thinking they are. We already have too many of those.
She belongs in the tank category more than anything resembling support.
It can fit, if you make their utility skyrocket. I’ll just throw some examples of possible changes here (don’t use them all at the same time):
Historically, Sombra has always been used mostly as the third DPS, or a counter to goats-type compositions. So she working with a solo healer is not uncommon. She only need a bit more consistency on what she already do.
- Make Sombra get ult charge again from allies using her hacked health packs, which will allow for more frequent EMPs, and make pack control an important part of Sombra kit
- Hack duration back into 6 seconds
- Hack cooldown while interrupted reduced to 1s
- Give teammates “walhacks” of enemies within her line of sight, while she is invisible (easier to share scouting info)
- Fix hack LoS check so that, eg, Genji can’t doublejump out of it, or Tracer blink in any direction to cancel the hack (hack consistency)
- Symmetra gain a global passive that provides 25 regenerative shields to all teammates.
- Pair that with my suggestion about shields countering burst damage (tldr: You don’t get damaged on white HP until all blue HP is gone), and those measly 25 HP will be a great strategic asset against certain comps.
- Increase turret number limit for better zone control
- Enemies hit by turrets are visible to Sym teammates as a wallhack effect, up to 1s later ater they stop being hit by the turret
- Enemies being hit by 3 turrets at the same time have all their mobility skills locked (as they are now when affected by graviton), until they are not longer being hit by 3 turrets.
- Teleporter get deployed faster
- Teleporter cooldown reduced to 8 seconds, and starts on placement. If Symmetra self-destruct her own TP, she adds 2 seconds to the cooldown (even going from zero to 2). If an enemy destroy her TP, it instead add 8 seconds.
- Make the Big Wall of Vishkar permanent. Enemy team can no longer just wait it expire, they need to break through it. Symmetra can still earn ult charge while the wall is up.
- Make the Big Wall of Vishkar continually provide shields to teammates that are near it
- Big Wall of Vishkar act as a solid wall for enemies. Your teammates can still cross it as it is a normal barrier.
- Big Wall of Vishkar is not translucent for enemies. Your team can still see through it normally.
That’s it. Revert her, give her some QoL stuff to make her gameplay more fluid. Let Shield Gen overheal show up its value now that people understand how powerful it is after Brigitte made the mechanic famous.
If it was up to myself, I would revert her, then make a new character and slap Sym 3.0 mechanics on them, and make both coexist.
Sym 2.0+Sym3.0= oonga town, population the blind? Think of all those turrets >.> And the from spawn double tele power. I’m in.
She really wasn’t.
She only served as a first engagement surprise on first point. She typically only manage to hold opponents at bay when they were to stubborn to change rosters or approach.
Once a single push was successful against her it would typically snowball until she was swapped out to stabilize.
The only time 2.0 was any good was that brief time after brig was released and sym had not been reworked. The combination of brig, torb, and sym bolstering permanent health was OP as all get out.
I’ve been using this comparison for almost a year now, and I’m sure I started using it because of someone else’s comment.
Before I used to make-pretend they reworked Sombra into Tracer, but the dichotomy Ashe/Widow is just so perfect, you can’t let it slide.
Genji clearly would make a better healer though.
Gengu should be a tank and you can’t convince me otherwise
Symmetra should be the kind of DPS you would pick to deal with heroes like genji, Sigma and D’va and actually not be food to them.
I just had this idea too. Sombra doesn’t work well on ladder because of communication. This could fix it.
Amen, I have never heard someone more correct.
Symmetra is the Queen of Utility and she will always be a support
Well, she worked as a support. Sure it had its flaws, but they were easily fixable by simply adding a second type of turret that heals, keeping the cap at 6 on the filed, but letting her have any amount of either up to the max of 6. 3 heals and 3 dps, 6 heals, 6 dps, whatever.
Old Symmetra worked, even with her many flaws. This rework took those flaws and gave her more, while making her worse in her respective niches. They’ve tried to find a middle ground for old Sym and new sym with the infinite tp, but it ruined new sym even further by slowing down her entire kit.
She needs to do a complete 180, and go back to the support role with the same kit she had before, but give her the option to build healing turrets or damaging turrets. Then we’ll see how she plays in a 2-2-2 setting, and balance her accordingly. That’s their best option. Turrets for damage heroes are awkward to balance, but as a support they were fine. They were annoying, but they were never anything more; they couldn’t rack up kills, just like they struggle to now.
So revert her, give her healing turrets as well as her current ones, and boom: Support Symmetra that can heal
LOUDER. Just in case the devs can’t hear you.
She would be so much better as a support.
Not really that, but it’s more of because the Damage role is outputting so much damage that its making it so mass healing is better than consistent healing, which is why Brig/Moira/Ana are ruling the game as of now.
she can be more than that as a dps… blizz legit just refuses to take the path to that happening but instead dig themselves back into the hole they dug her out of. like she wouldn’t be niche nor team dependent at all if they actually balanced her to be able to use tp + orbs as a stable method of contributing on her own, but everyone that isn’t actually a sym main are too focused on “eeermAHgeerrd lvl3 prermery and taxiii teeeepeee. must cheeeerge preeermeeery and teeeerxiii”.
At this point I’d just be glad they’re paying her some attention instead of pretending she doesn’t exist.
At least bad changes could open the door to implementing good changes. Better than her stagnating even further.