I think I’m missing something because it doesn’t make sense.
Ignoring the obviously increased queue times for many players, wouldn’t it just mess up the game? Cause there’s two ways this works, either you queue for something like tank, and it either locks you in that role or it lets you play others.
If it lets you play other roles then people just would. If people play Sym on attack then plenty won’t be afraid to queue as support but play DPS. Likewise though the problem is that plenty of times you might queue as a tank, but your team needs another support. So then you get punished for doing what your team needs. At the same time if it just rewards players for staying in their role, then players will refuse to switch purely to get the bonus, and since there are no consequences to changing role in game then people will queue as support to get faster games, but won’t actually play support, totally messing up the whole system.
The problem becomes even worse if it locks you in a role. Because comps change and there is no end all be all selection. If it locks you in then that means if your team needs another tank you can’t get anymore. At the same time that means the game is deciding what your team comp is before the match even starts. If it matches 2 support, 2 dps, and 2 tanks, that’s all you can work with. It might match 3 dps, 1 tank, 2 supports, and you can’t do anything about it. It would be like luck of the draw or something. It also means surprise comps would be extinct.
Not to mention there are certain grey areas. Like mei is a utility hero. But would she still classify as a DPS? Support? It would be weird to have a role specific to utility since that would cover many things tanks do, and would have a small selection. So heroes that are more utility would just get clumped together in a different role, which would easily mess up a comp.
I feel like I’m missing something because I don’t see how role queue could work with all of this being major side effects. Is there something more to role queue that would stop these from happening in game?
You have thought about role queue and how it will actually work, which is why you don’t like it so much. Most people asking for role queue don’t put a lot of thought into how it would actually work.
I expect that IF we get role queue, then it will lock you into a role with other role queuers, but…
It will be the same queue as solo and team queues, so you will be facing teams which don’t have that restriction.
People will complain, but, that is what restrictions you take.
I’ll try to explain even though I do not support the queue.
First, if the queue is voluntary it’s entirely true that players can completely ignore what they choose to queue as. However, as long as a portion of the players do follow through they still may end up with a more balanced match than they have currently.
Players also abuse the report system. A portion of those that didn’t follow through would likely end up with penalties due to false reports.
Additionally, the queue could keep a record of what the person was put into a match to be and what they choose and if after a specific number of matches had passed they were found to have selected an option other than what they were put into the match to be above a certain % (say 80% or 90% )of the time they could be penalized. Such a system would not catch everyone or catch them in a timely manner and it would potentially have issues with smurfs but, it would probably put a dent in the behavior.
Second if the queue forced hero role selection it’s true that you would be limited in the comps your team ran and in your ability to swap heros. For some players that would be a massive sacrifice that they would be willing to make because they are deeply frustrated with the way things are going. For other players these limitations are less of a sacrifice. They might be perfectly happy doing 2-2-2 vs 2-2-2 every game. Blizzard now has a popups even in Quick Play when you are running less than two healers and two tanks. That’s a very curious choice if they aren’t trying to push that style of a meta.
Finally, some models of role queue are potentially less limiting and instead of requiring something like 2-2-2 for a match the queue could look for 1-1-1 and then grab three others. That wouldn’t promise you the perfect comp but, it’d be an improvement some of the time at a lower cost than a more strict queue type.
A lot of that does make sense. But at the same time that’s a lot of concessions being made. Like the 2-2-2 vs 2-2-2, that would be a necessity. Like if one side has a certain number of roles, the enemy side has to have the exact same amount of roles. But the problem is that on certain maps that gives the defenders a massive advantage. Like if you are on defense hollywood with 3 DPS, 1 tank, and 2 supports, you know the attackers have that same role order. So it can be incredibly easy to predict what the attackers will run since their choices are limited to what would work with those roles on attack on this map.
Everything you said makes sense. But I feel like that is so many concessions just to have a different queue system that it really wouldn’t work.
people make this type of forum post ragulerly beleaveing that it will come true and the system that is in place now will change. in reality the only thing that needs to change is the 6 stack issue that is in the comp system right now
people that complain about the current system only complain becuse there geting plased with one tricks or off mtas or other people that they generaly dont want on there team and beleave that by adding a system like above comments have said it will " fix " the issue.
when in reality it wont. it will make it worse. Q times will be boosted becuse people will be entering into a system for rolls insted of just Qing up to battle and even then they will not follow the role they Qed up for. the times would be over played becuse more then one person is going to G for DPS and there times are going to rise the most becuse there are more DPS then takes or supports in this game.
add into it also that support is going to be the " must need class " and the few that allready fill that role are not going to want to fill it useing the so called system that has been sugested in this thread. support role players get tiered of being support. thy would stop qing . soon the system would fall apart as the lesser played roles got bored and stoped playing there roles. q times grow players stop playing. ect
now at hand what needs to be fixed that would fix all this.
the 6 stack peneltys that accure in comp when you do play as a team. get rid of the penelties and boom people can stop throwing tantrums on the forum about one tricks and everything else becuse if there so dang tiered of who there placed with in solo Q they now have the option that they have had all along.
to make a 6 stack and play with people they know will play with them how they want them to play. and do as there told.
so yes person i quoted. the Q system that is sugested here. would not work.
fixing the system thats allready in place. that on the other hand would.
and like i said in another thread where someone said " well i dont have any friends to play with or we cant all play at the same time " thats your fault. stop complaing about the way the game works. you can make a team do so. if you dont have friends then thats on you. and its your own fault. dont come QQing to the forum the next time you get stuck with a one trick an off meta or a troll. u have the option to team up with others. you choose not to
There is no 6 stack “penalty”. The matchmaker simply tries to find a match against other 6 stacks first because it’s more fair. If it can’t do that then it will still try and build the most fair match it can.
is that not a penalty ? take away the seek out a 6 stack first thing and it will allow a 6 stack to find a game faster.
personaly i never had isseus 6 stacking. i just stoped doing it becuse i enjoy playing alone more then i do as a 6 stack. but then again i dont complain on the forums like most of the people do about the current system. or about who i get placed with in a match. its not life or death if you win or lose. its a game. people take it to seriusly.
role queue as support or tank for shorter queue times and maybe bonus xp. when game starts you’re only allowed to choose from the role u queued for. people who didn’t role queue can flex and choose whatever they wanted. they would be no role queue for defense or attack characters.
specific icon would be on player border to indicate they role queued amd for what role.
could still end up in rooms with no one role queued but it would be rare. more balanced teams overall.
and again add higher q times and forced player choose no thanks. again its a flawed system that more meta occult slaves are trying to force on the none meta players.
if you dont like how the game system is set up 6 stack with people of like mind and stop solo qing.
Only DPS would have higher que times (welcome to online role based games). Want shorter que times? Learn to play another role.
Also, there is nothing wrong with testing out a completely separate and temporary Comp Role-Que Mode (like they are doing for 6v6 Elim). Don’t like it? Don’t que for it. Simple as that.
I think the players rallying even against a completely separate Role-Que mode are just scared of having their limitations exposed.
no. its the fact that the people demanding it are the people that beleave the meta is the only way to play the game.
its there way of lobbying for a system that forces on tricks out of the game as well as forces off meta players out of the game. once a " role " system is in place the next thing people will demand is that anyone that does not play said role be banned from the game for " violating the role system " in reality. this alone goes agenst blizzards idea of how this game should be played.
and thats that every player can play the game how they want to play when they want to play at all times. and that they can pick any hero they want to at any time.
by doing forced role ques it means that now blizzerd is takeing away this freedom that they want in there game. again that goes agenst there whole marketing ideals and there ideals in genral.
so no. again. a Q system like this does not need to be in the game
if you dont like how the game sets you up in Q stop solo Qing and start 6 stacking
and stop complaning on the forums about who your Qed with if you do solo Q its on you not the game who your stuck playing with. you choose to play solo. that means you choose to play with how the current system is and who you get placed with.
tbh i dont believe jeff kaplans argument “dps will have to wait 30min”… ive been a diamond support main since season 3… and the last 2 seasons my games were filled with support mains… usually 3, sometimes even up to 5.
i dropped down to plat now because i’m tired of being a supp main, i will play more tank now and a few dps like mei, pharah.
also my last game a few min ago had 4 supp mains again.
maybe there is a lack of supp players in bronze and gm… but def not on diamond, plat where most ppl are.
matchmaking should just make sure that 4supp mains dont go up against 5dps mains.
Almost every single meta comp has been 2-2-2. I think that with no role queue, and it falling that way, may as well just let that be the rules. People argue against me, but I mean, season 1 and 2 was 2 2 2, dive is 2 2 2, road orisa spam comp is 2 2 2. So just make it 2 2 2, sym will be out as a support soon, and that way you have balance.
and that is what i have been saying from the start. but everyone else wants a forced role selection Que insted of fixing the simple issue of 6 stacking.
again. even if the system is broken. 6 stack is the only option that everyone crying for a new Q system can do.
so stop asking for a new q system and do what is allready there eather 6 stack or dont play
There are a lot of problems with it, at least, enough that I can’t find a satisfactory solution to. How it would restrict team comps is among them. You could have role and comp preference queues but at some point would you be fracturing the community too much among those selections, would it mess with queue times? Just seems there are as many problems created by it as solved by it.
I think the best thing would be a better lfg mechanic and in game clans, versus creating role or class queuing.
Because by definition a fair even match is one in which either team has roughly even odds of winning, 50/50. This is not some kind of game rigging. This is a matchmaker giving matches as fairly as it can. If you are better than your rating you will gain sr and climb until the competition is equal to you ad you stabilize at 50/50. This isn’t Blizzard out to get you, this is just an attempt at balanced matchmaking.