I had a situation today where I was playing Rama and after getting stalled out most of the game, we finally started pushing the payload hard. My Genji and I were the only ones with Ult, and when I heard Genji start blading, I got an idea and popped Annihilation as well. Their Zen immediately used Trans to counter, but it didn’t matter. Genji got a couple of kills, and I followed the Zen and his team around, and even though the Zen stopped them from dying, all that did was allow my Ult to last longer. Genji and I easily mopped up the rest of the team.
That got me to wondering: just how viable is that combo? It would probably counter Lucio Beat even better, and even Immortality Field only feeds the Annihilation. Plus, even if the enemy does focus or CC me, that leaves Genji unfocused.
Granted, this doesn’t really help if the enemy team is cracked with damage and can burst me and/or Genji down fast. Plus, Lucio speeding his team away is the best possible response, but that’s fine on my end because it makes space for my team to push.
So what do you guys think? Decent strat or not worth it?
idk if it would be viable at a high elo (or worth it), but i could certainly see this working in qp or low elo.
the blade benefits alot from targets already being low, which rams ult will all but ensure. and since both ults attract alot of attention: using them at the same time forces people to split there focus and you could potentially catch a team completely off guard with it.
but the reason im not sure how it would work in high elo is because genji blade isnt very effective in a kiriko driven meta overall (even with nano) due to suzu both rendering people immune but also booping enemys away from the impact location (plus there just arnt enough “good” targets to go for as genji so why would you even play him lol)
question becomes: would it of been smarter for the genji too just attack the people in ramattra’s ult to weaken them? my vote would be “yes” then you could save blade for the next push after the zen ult.
This is true. But, Kiriko probably won’t be meta forever. Maybe at some point, the meta might shift enough to make this more viable.
Well, I think in my case, Genji did the right thing. I don’t know if he realized Zen had Ult, but forcing it out had to happen eventually if Zen was saving it for his blade. He also targeted the people who were running away from me, while I chased the people trying to hide in the Zen ult. Otherwise, he probably would have gotten nothing before Zen’s ult ended.
But yeah, I’m sure we both could have optimized that better.
I think in high ranks Genji would be able to combo people, even if his damage wasn’t up to it during Ram’s ult, because the ult would cover the rest, but 100% you would want to hold off blade till next fight, and alternate them.
Yeah, using Ram’s ult to particually burn through Zen’s ult is an interesting tactic, but I think it would be niche.
Nice if you can get it to work, but I would be nervous trying to rely on it. It is just easier to use one shots.
Seems like if Genji is on point, he will just steal your kills and bring your ult to a halt. If you want something to complement your ult, Zen using Transcendence would keep you on your feet long enough to start inflicting major damage on the enemy team. Though Ana using Nanoboost on you would also be funny. I’ve had this once or twice during Annihilation, and it was hilarious.
Yeah. I mean, that is what the thread is about really. It is more useful to combo them to make sure you can successfully get it, or is it better to run them separately?
I think it is situational. But, I won’t get angry at either one for popping the ult, especially if they still win though a Zen ult.
That is an exchange I will take all day. Zen’s ult is strong.
kinda mee ramata move way faster then genji and really unless its on point its dont really help either party it actually might hurt ramatra because if he kills someone in it ramara will start loosing time on his ult
my thought process is basically that either the zen was saving trance for blade or he was going to use it on the ramattra ult regardless. (genji holding blade to prevent trance is actually fine, because genji ult is worth less then trance so if he can prevent a zen from ulting thats great.)
if the ram manages to stay alive he gets free kills, so the blade becomes overkill.
typically you combo blade with something that either buffs his dmg (nano or orisa’s old ult) or something that CC’s people (shatter, grav or even sigma’s ult) the reason for this is that genji is very easy to kill during the unsheathing animation and the dmg reduction+heal from nano keeps him topped off and doubles his effective hp (a 400hp target flying at you with a 200hp combo attack) or they are CC’d and cant freely attack him so hes safer then as well. (it also makes it so his blade combo’s are not messed up by someone finishing off a target before he can attack them.)
that being said, comboing with the ram ult might actually be a good idea because it would split peoples attention if done properly. which is something that would help keep both genji and ramattra alive.
its so situational that its hard to say if it’ll be the next big combo though.
i consider ramattra to be the genji of the tank role. aka the moment he ults everyone just focus fires him and kills him or they hide.
I think it is so situational, that we can say that it won’t be. Nice if it works for you though. I can’t see it making Genji a worth while pick in high ranks. You won’t take him because the ults work well together.
You take him as a team pick because the Genji player picked him, and you just have to live with that
The question is, would having a Genji make you more likely to take Ram, over say, Zarya (when she is good)? (because you know, bubbling the Genji is good, and doesn’t burn an ult).
This is the first time I’ve ever heard of that before, tbh. I watch Necros, Shadder and Surefour all the time, and they almost always say that it was a successful blade if they forced out a Trans.
Which is exactly why I Ulted. They could focus either me or Genji, but not both of us. Like I said, he still probably could have died if he got headshot or something, but that was a risk regardless. At least this way, I can make sure he’s less likely to be focused/CCed.
Yeah, either way they are going for the exchange. One is holding to stop Blade, and the other is burning Blade in a situation where the Zen has to pop ult to save the team.
Maybe the best thing about the Genji ult is that it’s a good cleanup tool for killing anyone who escapes Ramattra. In my limited experience, one common tactic is for people to scatter so that Ramattra only kills one victim, causing the ult to end.
It’s sad that a team would scatter from Ramattra’s ult while their Zen has Transcendence running, though. That was a golden opportunity for them to gank Ramattra.
This right here is probably why it’ll never be a high rank strat.
Because the smart play would have been for the enemy team to sit in Zen’s Ult and burn me down ASAP. Genji still may have killed someone if his damage was cracked, but that’s a tall order. In my case, I was just glad my Genji was smart enough to target the people OUT of the Trans first.
blade is so weak in comparison to a support ult that forcing it is really good even if you get no kills with it. because you can back out with your team and push in afterwards. it is an uneven trade in your favor. but that also means holding blade to prevent trance is also really strong. the reason most dont do it is because its easier to predict what will happen if you force the ult then if you try and trick them into holding the ult for a opportunity that gives them more value then trancing your blade.
high elo zen’s arnt going to hold it forever they will use it eventually because they’d rather use it to save there team during another fight (or save themselves) then they would want to hard focus and counter the genji. since he isnt much of a threat in high elo so theres no reason to hold a support ult for him.
BUT
in low elo they’ll hold them forever and you can get alot of value just by never blading and applying pressure in the neutral fight. because you can completely neuter those heroes in low elo if you prevent them from ulting.
in lower ranks people arnt going to be as coordinated so if u blade and they trance, u might back out but your team rushes in and dies. so now its no longer a waste on there part since they made you waste your ult and they also won a team fight letting them build more ult charge for the other members of that team. so holding blade can prevent that in low ranks since it makes sure you either get to blade and get kills or that they get no value out of there support ult the entire round.
edit: that being said, killing the zen and blading afterwards is still a better option imo. but if you cant do that then holding ult is a great way to mentally break the zen/lucio player lol
Potentially good combo is Orisa ult + Genji Dash. Often people live with some hp and Dash gets rid of that. But tbf any splash damage works well with that. Throw a Junk nade into Orisa pull animation and people melt. You can also molten core the floor and Orisa can pull them into that etc.
