I can see that many people want nerfs to Echo’s Ultimate. I thought of two ideas that could possibly remedy the situation while not making Echo trash either.
1. Echo dies upon killing her in Duplicate
I’m actually not a fan of this one. I’ve seen this tossed around the forums many times and I think the next idea might be a good compromise.
2. Echo reverts to whatever HP she was at when she Duplicated upon “death” in her ultimate.
I noticed that many Echo players will use her ultimate to save her own life and then return to full HP at the end of Duplicate. With this nerf, Echo would have to play smart and make sure she is in a position to fight during Duplicate.
Note: The HP revert does not bring back any temporary HP such as Brigitte’s Armor or Lúcio’s Sound Barrier.
What do you guys/gals think?
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Echos ult was already nerfed
I mean, they nerfed her ult charge, but I think an HP revert would be fair.
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Learn the game before asking for such silly ideas
Learn the game? Dude, I’ve been playing since beta. Besides, it’s just an idea, it’s not like the devs are going to just go along with my post.
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You can still learn more…
I like both ideas. I think the 2nd one is more likely to happen, as it feel much better for the Echo player
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All the extra HP she gains should be blue HP so EMP can counter it, other than this it’s fine.
You’re being passive aggressive for no reason lol
OP can I suggest a 3rd idea? She keeps the self heal and doesnt die, but she only has one guaranteed ult during it.
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Im not being passive aggresive. We can all learn more. Nothing can be truely learnt
I actually thought about this. I think the best way to do it is to not give her any of the health benefits of the heroes, so all inherent shields and armor is health instead. I don’t like the idea of EMP being that strong against Duplicate.
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This is the only way to balance her ability to both copy tanks from any range and position (half of setting up tanks massive damage is positioning and she can do that whenever she wants) and then use their Ultimates.
Then Echo would actually have to be careful when and how she copies a tank because she can actually die and there’s an actual risk vs reward system in place like all other Ults.
Having Echo be able to transform into a tank and drop on the enemy from above is unbalanced. It’s why Rein is the best copy target. You copy right into the enemy and you can charge slam faster then they can “kill you” which it doesnt meaning they dumped a ton of resources to stop you but your still alive and now have your normal crazy mobility and damage CD’s available.
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I wasn’t sure if I should include that. I know that’s another idea that has shown up on the forums many times. They could possibly just drop the ultimate generation just enough to make certain ultimates harder to get while not really affecting others.
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If Echo dies during her ultimate, she experiences desynchronization, making it so that she can’t use abilities for 2 or 3 seconds.
i definitely foresee the devs implementing the 1st nerf.
their is really no good argument not to allow her to die in duplicate form. her ult transformation already gives her a second life with insta-full heal + CC immunity + abilities without any cooldowns
anyone who says being able to be killed while ulting would ruin her ult is either a feeder or stupid enough to think pressing Q should guarantee multikills
Way I see it, OP, there are really two overarching ways to balance her ult:
1- Same as your option 1: if she dies in Duplicate, she dies for realsies. She already incurs a considerable benefit in that she duplicates into a full health hero and then also regains all of her health on the ult ending naturally. This option creates an actual opportunity for a “bad” scenario, where dropping into the middle of the enemy team actually punishes you rather than just making the enemy burn cooldowns and/or allowing you to panic heal yourself. It, in essence, creates a suitable level of risk for the potential output of Duplicate.
2- Limit Echo to 1 enemy ult per Duplicate, and reduce her ult gain (probably to 500% or something). This basically operates under the opposite method of reducing the reward to be appropriate to the risk, rather than increasing the risk to be appropriate to the reward. Here, she’s still afforded considerable forgiveness, but she has so work a little harder to get the enemy ult and has more-limited impact. It’s a safer but lower-impact ult, whereas the first is risky but potentially very high impact.
The issue I see with your Option 2 is that it doesn’t resolve that Duplicate is still an incredibly safe ult to use. Even if you take away the panic heal benefit, it… still has a panic heal benefit, because you can turn from a 30 HP near-to-death Echo to a 500 HP Rein who can get his Shatter up in literally seconds. Even if you don’t get the Shatter up, you can barrier bot long enough to burn some enemy cooldowns and get your own cooldowns refreshed, so then on “dying” you’re afforded a chance to flit away. It’s better than what we currently have for sure, but it’s still too safe and low risk IMO
Echo should only be able to use ult once.
Double Emp just makes the game unfun
What OP posted is completely valid input. The nerf you’re referring to has nothing to do with what the OP is talking about. They already generally know how Echo works.
They are trying to tell OP they are stupid (when OP isn’t) without getting flagged for trolling.
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I don’t know if it needs a nerf to be honest. 99% of my games it takes people and incredibly long time to build and when they actually use it, they don’t get the duplicate ult charge or if they do, get no value from it (like a 1 person Earth Shatter.)
It still feels like an ult that’s not really worth the time you need to build it IMO.