imo, revert a pair of these nerfs
everything except the wall health is very juicy tbh. Even one of those being reverted (besides the wall health) would be a significant buff
IIRC Geoff Goodman said he wants to try making that idea where mei slides on her ice work.
You would think after potentially 3 reworks, they would finally hit the nail on the head…
did he have heal station?
Sym 1.0 beam level 2 was 60 dps in 5m tether and disconnect at 7m
She legit just needs something in her kit to be fast. Everything she has is just so sluggish. Teleporter takes forever to activate, turrets fly incredibly slowing and are easy to knock out of the air, charged ball is laughable as a ranged damage option. M1 ramp up is slow af, and really only good/ usable against tanks.
Faster teleporter activation so it can be used as a reactionary ability.
Faster orb charge + MUCH faster projectile speed (even at the cost of damage nerfs if need be).
Faster m1 ramp up (especially on squishies) so that it’s actually a threat. It’s kind of a joke to me that it’s nigh useless on squishies unless it’s already at full charge.
Just literally anything so that she can defend herself when something breathes on her. Obv not suggesting all of those changes but it would be a start at least.
Dude- this is direct advice from the very highest players and coaches. Disrupting someone’s movement directly diminishes their value. I think you are underestimating how important that really is.
It doesn’t.
But in combination with other stats you can figure out pretty precisely whats going wrong.
And for Sym it is very clearly, that she has a niche in which she is extremely strong (55-60% winrate - even if it is just on a few select maps or certain parts of maps - is insane), while it is extremely hard to get value out of her outside of her niche.
If they would now simply buff her so she is also strong outside of her niche, what do you think would happen in those scenarios where she already is at 60% winrate?
There are only 2 options on the table:
Either rework Symmetra and move her into the “generalist” direction, or to rework the maps that favor her so she can get buffs.
The first one seems by far less complicated to me, because the second will have much more unintended effects on other heroes as well.
How would you rework her into generalist direction?
Cutting the TP and giving her something else in return sounds like and easy and viable approach.
I really liked her Barrier that was later “stolen” and improved by Sigma.
If he loses it for OW2 she might get it back in its improved form together with a few other changes and moved into the Tank Role.
I don’t think I would want Sym as a tank.
I think Sym should have a way to engage and disengage from fight by some escape or mobility ability.
Maybe a simplified TP where she places a marker which can be destroyed on the ground where only Sym can transport to the marker and back. I would remove the whole TP gate construct.
I want piercing orbs back too they would need a compensation for it.
There are 2 possible ways:
Actually I’m not opposed fast piercing orbs. At least they would be kinda consistent compared to 2.0 orbs.
Oh god please no. They were so slow back then. Please just keep the orbs with the speed and damage they have currently, but let them pierce
I think for that to happen there would need a change where only full charged orbs can pierce shields.
You have to consider that Barriers will be much weaker in OW2.
Being able to pierce them might be not really relevant at the point it releases.
2.0 had the same dps intervals as 1.0, she just got her beam catch range to 7m and tether to 10m
level 1, 30 dps
level 2, 60 dps
level 3 120 dps
Except I would like to add that she can teleport while holding charge, then shoot a follow up shot. This can lead to the TTK almost being as high as the follow up shot is.
The charge mechanic in general is quite problematic for the orbs.
I wonder if it would be better to swap the primary and secondary charges. Make it so primary just scales over time, just slowly ramping up and down rather than in 2 bursts. And make the secondary ramp up at set intervals.
Idk I always think, Sym needs small changes. then I start theory crafting and suddenly Im taking strides and changing her entire kit. her balance is so volatile. Cant wait for her in OW2 because something must change (hopefully her role)
They maybe could pierce or do more damage if they pass through her own shield wall. That would be cool, maybe it absorbs some of her own shields to increase its power and pierce.
Anyone who passes through her wall should get hit by dps equivalent to a turret and be snared by 1 turret’s worth of snaring.
Except plenty of other heroes either “disrupt movement” better or can actually decently damage alongside that/in doing so.
Things that are more consistent to land like ranged hitscans demand you take cover (more drastic disruption of movement) or get shot with higher damage at higher consistency (more damage).
Things that are actually designed or numbered better for zoning like
for spam of low charge orbs? they have no lingering mechanics, obvs aren’t consistent at landing and even if they do land, it’s fairly negligible damage done that’s highly healable —> there’s just very little disruption if any.
except your arguments fall flat when you consider the the numbers in depth rather than just at face value of “high winrate + low pickrate = fine as niche” and the actual logic behind such a claim.
A niche hero is only balanced if they’re proportionally stronger in their niche for how narrow it is. Otherwise, there’s no point in them having such a niche and it means other heroes can do just as well in that niche while doing well in others, and by definition, she is underpowered overall when averaging across all situations.
Now can you honestly tell me that sym having say 55~60% winrate in her niche is supposedly proportionally strong enough in her niche that’s as narrow as “pick this specific team comp, on this specific map/point, as well as specifically play this strat that’s 100% designed around escorting and allowing her to get uptime, otherwise she’s 
” (as indicated by the <1% pickrate)?
I mean you don’t need to go into the math easily tell that obvs that’s not the case.
and I can provide some quick maths that support this conclusion, but rather than making this reply longer than it needs to be, I’ll refrain for now unless requested.
well here’s the beauty of the changes I suggested.
little of what I suggested buffs team tps, w+m1 nor her turrets.
i.e. if you want to “protect the [sym] president” w+m1 with team tps like owl, pretty much none of the benefits of the suggests meaningfully help that.
orbs changes make them better in longer range than primary and if you want those benefits, you’re not w+m1’ing. like the team pocket w+m1 that OWL does leave little need to benefit from ranged orbs as their strat is to get up in the enemy’s face quick and brawl there.
if you want to team tp, the immediate interation for tp isn’t beneficial at all (in fact is moreso suicide if they do try to interact before the team for the typical team tp strats).
if you’re team tping and playing “escort the president”, there’s little opportunity for sym to use tp for herself.
the problem with that is as I described to someone else before:
and the sustain route will likely run issues when you consider her primary.
The real reasons she isn’t played:
#1. Teammates suck so TP is useless
#2. Point and click hitscan are OP and EZ
which, if the calculations above are correct, be 0.85s for current and 0.7s for new (the 0.25s winddown defs occurs as you’re engaged which is added to the 2nd orb charge time).
which if we’re to draw in comparisons to others of that ttk, that’s like a mccree landing 2 headshots (0.5s TTK).
whether if that’s unfair or not 
because we’re talking about landing 1 flick shot upon turning through tp and 1 normal shot and the suggestions above is to reduce orb max projectile size (i.e. harder to land in closer ranges).
I mean her problem is that she fundamentally isn’t balanced to be able to get uptime herself.
mobility should compensate range or vice versa so that they could reach their effective range often enough, yet sym is low on both.
sustain should compensate low burst or vice versa so that they can reasonably live long enough in effective range to get decent value, yet sym obvs doesn’t have the sustain to compensate all her delays.
and lets be real, the devs have a myriad of options to go from that state of low everything. they can do middle of all parameters, they can go flanker route of high mobility + high burst with low rest, they can go ranged route of longer range, etc.
and the tp changes directly aim to let sym be more capable of using tp for herself + the orb changes to let her have a staple weapon fire that’s actually decent rather than the current 
it is while her primary is ever highly situational.