Wrote this originally on the r/Overwatch Reddit but wanted to post it here too.
The Problem
We’ve all been there, especially if you’re a main support. After capturing the payload, your team goes off to take space (or get picked off trying), getting in fights, playing the game, all while you sit on the objective. Obviously you don’t do this the whole game, but there may be minutes that go by of you doing… well nothing really. That’s significant when the games only last 10 - 15 minutes.
So how can it be fixed? Well it’s actually pretty simple, the payload shouldn’t need a player to sit on it in order to move. Sounds radical I know, but hear me out.
Defending and Attacking Team Advantages
The defending team has a natural advantage in payload games, they can take up defensive positions and the attacking team has to work to push them out of those positions in order to keep the payload moving. Of course the attacking team isn’t without its advantages. The payload heals nearby attackers and the objective helps the team naturally stick together. However, this isn’t much of an advantage in the uber mobile world of Overwatch 2 where sticking directly together has been nerfed significantly. Additionally the healing effect of the payload doesn’t really make sense and is likely only there because TF2 payloads gave health and ammo, ammo being the most helpful part. The health in it of itself is not a good enough incentive for players to stick to the cart, especially with the new support role passive. When’s the last time the healing of the payload saved you? I think they should drop the healing part of the payload altogether and make the advantage that the payload can move its own.
What the Solution Would Look Like
Obviously the payload shouldn’t just move by itself all the time, that would nullify the game mode entirely. But think about how KotH objectives work. Once captured, a KotH objective builds up percentage as long as it’s not recaptured, I mean imagine if you needed someone to stand on the objective for that number to go up? The payload objective can work similarly, it should be essentially a moving KotH objective. When contested the payload should stand still, when in possession of the attacking team it should move forward slowly, and when in possession of the defending team it should move (probably even more slowly) backwards. It should also be faster to capture than KotH objectives, think one blip instead of three. I also think you should be able to make it go faster by standing near it, that way you can still take advantage of team wipes (though perhaps not by the defending team).
Why?
More fun for everyone. Sure everyone needs to be aware of the objective, and stick near enough so a defending flanker doesn’t capture it. But as a solo support you’ll be able to go around that next corner to heal your feeding teammates without getting yelled at that the payload’s not moving. We all want more time and playing and less time doing nothing, this does exactly that. Let me know what you think! Am I insane?
Also, honestly, I don’t agree. Good points made, yes, but it isn’t hard to stick with the payload, and catering to those who do ignore it would only discourage team efforts while encouraging a defensive variant of backcappjng, forcing the defensive team to spread thin while the offensive team is kicking @$$ and somehow not winning.
Again, good points made, but I don’t think the overall idea would go over well.
Here’s your first issue, this is only true when defenders have time to setup, after they lose the point on hybrid or get team wiped from first who has the advantage depends on how far back the defenders decide to defend from the point or how far the attackers decide to setup while defenders are respawning.
The point of pushing the objective is to maintain defender advantage despite attackers now having the time to setup while defenders are respawning by making them down one, or having to fight a 5v5 on point where the fight is even or eve attacker advantage but while the fight is happening the point isn’t moving meaning you likely an additional fight to take the next point even if its even.
TLDR: Having one person on cart evens the retake fight because attackers get a positioning advantage after defenders get wiped. The more “fun” variation creates a steam rolling effect for attackers by giving them an insane advantage after first point over defenders.
Interesting tidbit, you see the difference in positioning at different elos, higher elos tend to leave one on cart while 4 push up to take an advanced fight because positional advantage is more impactful at higher elos compared to lower, you see the 4 people pushing up win a 4v5. Lower elos tend to fight 5v5 on cart because lower elo attackers tend to be worse at using positioning to win fights when they are down a player.
Not pushing the payload properly is a player issue, not a game issue.
How it should be played:
Attackers win team fight and take control of payload. All but one of team moves forward to a defensible position to intercept defenders as they re-engage. Ideally this is in sight of player on payload, or will be shortly with some payload progress. Person on payload should have some sort of ability to contribute to fights at range. As defenders push in, attackers fall back to payload as needed.
What often happens:
Attackers win team fight and take control of payload. Everyone runs forward leaving cart unattended, or one person stays back. People who run forward charge headlong into enemy spawn, ignoring any potential cover or positional advantage. Attackers who went forward discover power of spawn advantage and get wiped. Lone person on cart gets blitzed by full team and gets staggered.
Personally, I think that if this is implemented, it should go slower if there’s nobody on it. Maybe like 50% slower than it does now or something. If there are people on it though, it goes at regular speed
You bring up a good point. I think defenders also struggle to regain positional advantage as they can often end up staggered if the first team wipe is uneven. At the same time, if the attackers are ignoring the captured payload to push up with a full 5, it could make for some interesting dynamics where defenders could punish this by going for the payload first or a flanking dps could back cap and force a retreat. Still though, I see your point.
I completely agree, it shouldn’t go as fast with nobody on it. This would help land the change between quality of life and a straight up attackers buff.
No. Having to keep the payload moving is literally the whole point of the game. You leave, it stops. You having to touch is part of what makes it challenging. People are so stupid , that they can’t stay on the payload , now just want it to do it automatically for them. This is just pathetic.
I have a better solution – I don’t read what you suggested because it is most definitely just a terrible concept and people don’t play a role where one of their main responsibilities is sitting on the payload.
I would argue the primary challenge is to keep the payload moving. That would remain the same with this change. Nevertheless, I can see how not requiring touching the entire time would lessen the challenge; I just don’t think that challenge is a fun mechanic.
Touching the payload to make it move is literally the whole point. If you abandon it, you are punished. You may be off fighting away from it and someone sneaks behind backing it up. They shouldn’t have to recapture to do so. You abandoned it, it stops, they can just go back it up. I literally won a match as tracer, 1v5 a team on route 66, I pestered them until they chased me off the payload. It stopped and time ran out with the payload just little bit from reaching its point. They lost and they deserved to lose. That was stupid. By your rules, they would have still reached the objective, even though they totally abandoned it. I would guess that anyone who’s ever been embarrassed like that, are the ones wanting the payload to move on it’s own. It’s the" I can’t win the right way, so I want to change the rules to help me."
By my rules you still would have punished them for being off the payload and they wouldn’t reach the objective. You could have contested preventing it from moving at all or could even recapture it entirely, arguably making them have to work even harder. It’s not that I or my team fails to have someone on the payload to push it, it’s that I don’t find that to be a fun mechanic. If the attacking team takes the payload and no defenders are touching it, it should move forward slowly. It’s actually quite like how the payload slowly moves backwards currently when the attackers fail to touch it for some time, it would basically be the same thing but in the other direction.
They aren’t punished if the payload continues to move when they are off of it. I lead them on a wild goose chase and they were dumb enough to follow. They lost, as they should. I think you fail to comprehend that you are supposed to be escorting the payload. Escorting means you stay with it. It does not mean ,get it moving and go do whatever.
Conceptually a good idea. A few changes I would make though:
While it’s reasonable for the payload should be able to move most of the way without a babysitter, for maybe the last 10% of the way someone should have to actively push it to avoid having the point capture itself. At the point, most of the fights are probably happening around the payload anyway.
The payload shouldn’t automatically move backward, even at a slow pace, just because the defending team controls it. I would suggest that backwards movement should both require that the defending team control the cart plus a time delay similar to what exists now.
