in general it feels like the newer tanks have both strong shields and good damage and some form of damage mitigation beside a shield, maybe overal there is too much damage mitigation for tanks (shield, barriers, matrix). Hammond (and maybe hog) is an exception to this. maybe some tank synnergy is also too strong (sig + orisa, rein + zarya), the too strong synnergy is probably the cause of the last few metas
New healers feel like they get both high healing (moira M1 + orb, bap main healing + AoE ability) + good or consistent damage (brig M1, old shieldbash, whipshot, Bap M1 + ult, moira M2 + orb) and some crazy ability or ult (Rally, immortality field, moira ult which pierces shield, Moth mercy ress). A healer shouldnt have a strong combination of 2 of these or more, 1 strong part + 1 ok part + 1 meh part would be the best combo i think. Mercy is a weird exception to this because the ress stacking was just busted
My question for you would be.
How would these things you pointed out Improve the dps que times and encourage players to go to both tank and support roles?
–Support role might be more stable in que times, but we have a lot of sup players not really doing their job – heal.
–After the nerfs to both roles, due to the lack of choices and small roster pools. Both playerbases feel oppressed playign this roles. Some have quit, some have shifted to the dps role.
Reason being – More options in dps, other roles don’t feel as impactful anymore, limited choices due to small roster and a hero being removed form dps.
So you are suggeting 1-3-2 and or 1-1-2-2
I’ve suggested something similar – 1-3-1-1
I do agree that maybe increasing the roles that can be played will allow players to have better options and let go of the dps role.
Some players find this to be too complicated for them and perfer a more simple approach.
Instead of focing these roles on teh player base, we should be striving to encourage them. Some suggested by making the roles much more diverse. Some believe that we should have tanks that do more than just provide shields.
How can we encourage diversity?
A favorable answer seems to be to increase our roster with more heroes.
Maybe more unique heroes with unique gameplay styles?
Adding your links to my OP btw for better visability.
last note: Tanks have already been nerfed. Do you think that blizzard and the community will approve buffs to tanks after the nerfs coming out as a solution?
I agree that 1-3-2 should of been experimented with more reworks and balance adjustment given to the roster.
Maybe it would have increased the likelyness of the playerbase enjoying the experience.
It would make DPS want to play Tank more, because they could kill things on the tank role.
OffTanks are already mostly like a DPS, but you got a 50/50 chance of having to play BarrierTank (or face a wall of toxicity).
By making it so that regardless which tank you pick, you can deal decent damage, it pulls in more DPS.
Zarya in 1-3-2 has to be rewarding to ME, not the team. What they did in the exp, was made her simpler and dumber to use. I don’t want less damage as a reconfigured Zarya. I want more damage. And a more complex shield system. Not press E and shield the whole team without looking.
I agree that the gameplay style isnt soo diverse in the lower two roles.
What can you suggest for tanks to do, besides placing barriers and granting shields , that can help them do their job as a tank.
One idea i had in mind is a taunt like mechanic – the tank redirects all projectiles to him while mitigating the dmg or healing him for the dmg done.
This is just one quick example of adding new mechanics.
In my bridge rework, i create another way of mitigating dmg as well.
Bridge rework idea: Bridge Rework Idea
Well a lot of supports in the lower ranks get overwhelmed with healing multiple people and tanks keep dying but with 1-3-2 I made sure tank was always healed and the other healer could heal everyone else
I want to feel a fully charge beam burning down Rein’s shield. You know when she’s at 100% and nano boosted. That sound should be the default full charge noise. This could even be done through voice lines. If you stay in contact with a target long enough. The character starts saying things. Zarya at 100% should change her visual beam effect. The tip turns into a torment spray. Hitting a wider area. I want Zarya to feel strong with shielding. Like Doomfist Fully charge punch stopped when a bubble goes on.
That’s how you make a tank feel strong. Actually show it. You shatter her bubble. You take damage from the energy shards. All tanks should have a different Melee sound. Where it’s a huge thud on targets. If you want me to support 1-3-2. The tank must feel like a force of nature. Making them dumb, like in Zarya’s case. Because they couldn’t think of a way to make her be useful alone, is not it.
I’d also put the separate role SR in that list. Which is why I think they wouldn’t remove roleQ without having to deal with that first somehow.
I wouldn’t say easily, lots of work still have to be done and tbf even if there’s a lot of work going into something like a rework it feels kinda… lazy…
Tanks should feel much more stronger
same goes for 1-4-1 – both tanks and supports should feel stronger – like how MMORPGS handles the trinity.
in a 2-2-2 settings, this tends to limit the potency a support and tank character can bring out.
Do you think maybe we should go into the same trinity style mmorpgs have 1-4-1? In doing so, tanks and support will have to be given a lot of potency in their reworks to handle their own weight vs 4 dps.
I hope i understood what you are asking.
Stronger Tanks if only one tank dealing with three dps --1-3-2
completely agree.
When i tried 1-3-2. I was liking the direction they were taking but i felt like they could have done more.
I would really like them to reintroduce 1-3-2 with more reworks going out and better improvement on the tank’s potency. so they can feel more powerful and game changer without being “op”
I would also like to see the same experiment with 1-4-1. Introducing the MMORPG style of the trinity. This way tanks and support can feel much more powerful and game changer.