new Heroes over all or for specific roles -tanks, supports?
That is true, players should switch roles more often.
the question for this is, how can we encourage this?
Some say by again, adding more heroes to tanks and supports
other have said by making these two rosters with chars more diverse/unique.
What is your take on this?
I do like role que as well, it does help with a lot of issue and only leave us now with a few critical ones.
It seems like most players are favoring adding more heros to the tank and support roster. Do you agree with this statement? I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth
My goal is to have kind of like a survy thing for blizzard so they can see what we want as a player base from what i’ve gathered from you all.
Is role que the issue, should it be removed?
Are the heroes themself the issue – gameplay balane?
Are the roster themselves the issue – should we drastically add more options to the none dps roles?
So far i’m seeing players favor the idea of adding more to Sup and tank roster.
Thank you for your feedback. Hopefully this post can help blizzard see and decide for themselves!
I also encourage everyone else to post their views, whether they’re normally accepted or not. But please give your reasoning to why! Eventually we can see a common pattern of solution.
i’d like to see more tanks and supports being added, but they have to be careful with their kits. nearly each time they added a new tank or support it creates or enables a new meta which will last for eternity and for some people it feels like each next meta is worse than the one before.
What do you think might be causing these power / meta shifts you’ve stated with tanks?
Some people believe is due to their shields, which is one thing that got heavily nerfed recently. Do you believe this is the reason?
Should Tanks find more ways to protect and support their team besides placing down shields?
I for one enjoyed hog’s ability to heal his team with the experimental card and thought it was a nice touch.
This is 3 invisible queue buckets that, as near as I can tell, actually make matchmaking worse (through overfitting). This is one of those things that increases queue times without adding anything positive. Though, I do understand that a lot of people think having role-specific SR means something, I think they are dead wrong.
This seems like an obvious easy fix to me. And something they can easily check. I would bet dollars to donuts that the queue time improvements they saw in the 1-3-2 Experiment were driven by lack of proper matchmaking more than anything else.
2. Restructure the roster to Tank, Support (off-tank plus control), Damage and Healer. Similar to what they did with the HotS role rework.
This would give us 11 main/off-tank, 13 damage, and 7 healer (not counting Echo). If they were to add 1 Tank, 1 Support, 1 Damage, and 3 Healer in OW2, then we’d be at 12/15/10 (assume Echo stays Damage). Which would be a pretty good spot to release heroes of each role with equal frequency. And it wouldn’t mean waiting years for a fix, because it’s just a few reworks plus OW2. Just setting up OW2 properly could avoid this problem stretching on for years.
a question i have is.1 How would removing role-specific MMR improve the current issues such as que timers for dps? Help me understand better.
Do you mean we go back to one specific MMR?
Do we remove the ability to que for every role and just limit choices to 2-2-2 when players join the char select screen. so basically first come first serve?
Or do we allow the current setup just all under one MMR?
I’ve suggested something similar with my 1-3-1-1. Except i named mine enchanters – Zen, Bridge, Lucio, Sym, Mei, Sombra, Torb, experimental zyra, and experimental Roadhog. I’ve also based this on HOTS–Support heroes, who give boosts and other benefits to their allies.
The question to this is, will blizzard consider mass reworking chars into other roles?
What chars should be reworked?
Will the extra role limit que timers or improve them?
Is it better to just add more heroes to the missing roles instead of reworking them again as suggested by a previous comment?
Keep 2-2-2 role queue, but have only a single SR (for all roles). This would mean the matchmaker would have less variables to consider. These articles do a good job of explaining why more variables are bad for queue times:
I’m not sure if it will improve queue times, but it will improve roster balance.
Yes, ideally, moving some Damage heroes to a pseudo-off-tank role while making off-tanks more damagey would draw more players from the Damage queue into the Tank/Support (off-tank) queue. Hard to say without actually testing it, but that’s the idea. Basically, a middle ground between 2-2-2 and 1-3-2… I guess you could call it 1.5-2.5-2.
Adding more heroes would certainly be nice, but reworks are a lot less expensive. Plus, 1-1-2-2 is how the game is typically played. 2-2-2 actually hindered that a little bit, because you can no longer have Sombra or Mei in the off-tank slot. Killing comps like Hammond+Sombra triple-dps, which this would allow for.
in general it feels like the newer tanks have both strong shields and good damage and some form of damage mitigation beside a shield, maybe overal there is too much damage mitigation for tanks (shield, barriers, matrix). Hammond (and maybe hog) is an exception to this. maybe some tank synnergy is also too strong (sig + orisa, rein + zarya), the too strong synnergy is probably the cause of the last few metas
New healers feel like they get both high healing (moira M1 + orb, bap main healing + AoE ability) + good or consistent damage (brig M1, old shieldbash, whipshot, Bap M1 + ult, moira M2 + orb) and some crazy ability or ult (Rally, immortality field, moira ult which pierces shield, Moth mercy ress). A healer shouldnt have a strong combination of 2 of these or more, 1 strong part + 1 ok part + 1 meh part would be the best combo i think. Mercy is a weird exception to this because the ress stacking was just busted
My question for you would be.
How would these things you pointed out Improve the dps que times and encourage players to go to both tank and support roles?
–Support role might be more stable in que times, but we have a lot of sup players not really doing their job – heal.
–After the nerfs to both roles, due to the lack of choices and small roster pools. Both playerbases feel oppressed playign this roles. Some have quit, some have shifted to the dps role.
Reason being – More options in dps, other roles don’t feel as impactful anymore, limited choices due to small roster and a hero being removed form dps.
So you are suggeting 1-3-2 and or 1-1-2-2
I’ve suggested something similar – 1-3-1-1
I do agree that maybe increasing the roles that can be played will allow players to have better options and let go of the dps role.
Some players find this to be too complicated for them and perfer a more simple approach.
Instead of focing these roles on teh player base, we should be striving to encourage them. Some suggested by making the roles much more diverse. Some believe that we should have tanks that do more than just provide shields.
How can we encourage diversity?
A favorable answer seems to be to increase our roster with more heroes.
Maybe more unique heroes with unique gameplay styles?
Adding your links to my OP btw for better visability.
last note: Tanks have already been nerfed. Do you think that blizzard and the community will approve buffs to tanks after the nerfs coming out as a solution?
I agree that 1-3-2 should of been experimented with more reworks and balance adjustment given to the roster.
Maybe it would have increased the likelyness of the playerbase enjoying the experience.
It would make DPS want to play Tank more, because they could kill things on the tank role.
OffTanks are already mostly like a DPS, but you got a 50/50 chance of having to play BarrierTank (or face a wall of toxicity).
By making it so that regardless which tank you pick, you can deal decent damage, it pulls in more DPS.
Zarya in 1-3-2 has to be rewarding to ME, not the team. What they did in the exp, was made her simpler and dumber to use. I don’t want less damage as a reconfigured Zarya. I want more damage. And a more complex shield system. Not press E and shield the whole team without looking.
I agree that the gameplay style isnt soo diverse in the lower two roles.
What can you suggest for tanks to do, besides placing barriers and granting shields , that can help them do their job as a tank.
One idea i had in mind is a taunt like mechanic – the tank redirects all projectiles to him while mitigating the dmg or healing him for the dmg done.
This is just one quick example of adding new mechanics.
In my bridge rework, i create another way of mitigating dmg as well.
Bridge rework idea: Bridge Rework Idea
Well a lot of supports in the lower ranks get overwhelmed with healing multiple people and tanks keep dying but with 1-3-2 I made sure tank was always healed and the other healer could heal everyone else
I want to feel a fully charge beam burning down Rein’s shield. You know when she’s at 100% and nano boosted. That sound should be the default full charge noise. This could even be done through voice lines. If you stay in contact with a target long enough. The character starts saying things. Zarya at 100% should change her visual beam effect. The tip turns into a torment spray. Hitting a wider area. I want Zarya to feel strong with shielding. Like Doomfist Fully charge punch stopped when a bubble goes on.
That’s how you make a tank feel strong. Actually show it. You shatter her bubble. You take damage from the energy shards. All tanks should have a different Melee sound. Where it’s a huge thud on targets. If you want me to support 1-3-2. The tank must feel like a force of nature. Making them dumb, like in Zarya’s case. Because they couldn’t think of a way to make her be useful alone, is not it.
I’d also put the separate role SR in that list. Which is why I think they wouldn’t remove roleQ without having to deal with that first somehow.
I wouldn’t say easily, lots of work still have to be done and tbf even if there’s a lot of work going into something like a rework it feels kinda… lazy…
Tanks should feel much more stronger
same goes for 1-4-1 – both tanks and supports should feel stronger – like how MMORPGS handles the trinity.
in a 2-2-2 settings, this tends to limit the potency a support and tank character can bring out.
Do you think maybe we should go into the same trinity style mmorpgs have 1-4-1? In doing so, tanks and support will have to be given a lot of potency in their reworks to handle their own weight vs 4 dps.
I hope i understood what you are asking.
Stronger Tanks if only one tank dealing with three dps --1-3-2