How Mass rez was more fun than now and if it was even healthy

General Discussion
94

that’s like asking a convicted criminal to admit to his crimes

95

Weirdly, I used to think (a year ago) that tempo rezzes were anything below 3 man resses. :joy:

96

I was asking him simply because I knew that he wouldn’t have any proof.

97

well he never stated that devs saying that buuuuut given how updates have been it’s more likely mercy would get another ult than reverting back to mass rezz.

98

Who knows at this point…

99

That is if they died. Mercy wouldn’t get a shine moment but Good Mercys wouldn’t say go die on point. They will heal till they can see he enemeis are breaking thru her heal, so she takes cover for 1-2 sec and people instantly say “UGH HIDEN RES”. Like what am I supposed to do? Face tank the zarya grav or rein shatter?

100

If mass res was more risky like deadeye, it would have been better.

It’s like making Mcree intantly lock on, be invincible, and do max damage as soon as he pushes the button. Draw back would be range.

Mass res needed to be more risky and stoppable during the act, not after.

Making her invincible was when things went downhill.

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101

This is why I always plea for damage reduction :stuck_out_tongue:

102

See, why couldn’t Blizz think of that.

Making anyone other then zen stay invincible when utling is weird lol😂

If someone told me that a character had the ability to raise 5 players Instantly, and had the mobility to do so, and became invincible while doing it, I would have never believed it.

(Good to see you Widow):heart:️

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103

That’s pretty much what bothered me about mass resurrect.

With every other ultimate in the game:

  • You could kill the hero before they used it
  • You could kill the hero while they were using it
  • You could kill the hero right after they used it

With Mercy:

  • You could kill the hero before they used it
  • You could kill the hero after she used it and invulnerability worn off

…but you couldn’t stop it during. It had no cast time…it was instant.

I never like the, “The counter to Mercy was killing her” because that’s simply applicable to every other hero in the game. Most of the arguments that people gave for countering mass resurrect is not exclusive to it. Every other hero has the same counter. You had less ways of stopping Mercy with such a powerful ultimate than you did with other heroes, though, and that’s the discrepancy that I couldn’t get over.

No ways to stop Mercy during her ult + instant cast time + Mercy being invulnerable during and for a few seconds after + No LOS restrictions = far less counterplay than any other hero. Even Zenyatta’s Transcendence has more counter to it because you can Biotic Grenade his teammates. You couldn’t stop resurrect.

And I also think hide-and-mass resurrect was actually far more popular than people keep saying. Popular streamers like Animetic and EeveeA would do it all the time. I would get yelled at to hide with resurrect as Mercy, I would have our Mercy tell us to die on point…etc.

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104

Simple fix, Add a cast time and remove invulnerability. It doesn’t need to be a long cast time but it shouldn’t be so short that it’d be futile to even try to take her out. Currently she has a 1.8 second Cast time I say make it 1.5 seconds, take away invulnerability, but substitute it with say 25% damage reduction or whatever Blizzard Feels is right. It’s actually quite simple. But we could balance Mercy 1.0 far easier than we can Mercy 2.0 esp with Rez being an ability on a 30 second cooldown? That’s whats wrong with mercy right now.

105

then u waste more ults dont u?
her ult was ez to use and strong
unlike genjis ult for example it uses skill can get a lot of kills or not a lot somethings even non at all is ults got a lot of counters (most ults and some abilitys)
mercy’s mass rez dont uses skill can easily make 3 ults useless got only one counter (u probably used most of ur ults to win the fight) to kill her before she uses rez (hard when she is hiding) and if u did kill her before she can rez she got it for next fight

106

And Valkyrie is even more ez but is the opposite of strong.

107

I don’t see why using an ult to counter another ult is a bad thing.

It was easy to use and can be strong, but is stronger when you actually think about when to rez or if it is even worth it to rez.

alrighty

Hiding doesn’t take skill, using it properly takes a lot more skill.

Again, blowing all ultimates into one fight. Also, if you know that Mercy is off hiding, then that would make the fight into a 5v6 with the enemy team down a main healer.

Yes, that is how ultimates work.

108

I don’t believe Mass Rez was that great of an ult, because it felt like a giant middle finger to the enemy team. Like: “oh, you guys just pulled off a really great attack and used a lot of ults but that’s okay because you’re gonna cap point A? Well TOO BAD I WAS HIDING THE WHOLE TIME SO I COULD PISS YOU ALL OFF”

However I will agree that Valkyrie isn’t a great ult. It’s kinda boring compared to the other ones.
Rein: Slams his hammer into the ground and creates a mini earth-quake.
Doomfist: Down-B into the enemy team
Ana: You pick someone and they get powerful and also they spark with lightning
Genji: Ninja blade of death
Lucio: The actual effect of the ult may not seem TOO awesome, but he DROPS THAT BEAT
Hammond: BAM! Explosive’s everywhere baby!
Widow: Wall hacks for everyone!
Mei: The enemy has about 3 seconds to escape the red ring of death. WATCH THEM SQUIRM
Zarya: Again, WATCH THE ENEMY TEAM SQUIR HELPLESSLY
McCree: Clint Eastwoods those mother f***ers
Zen: Reaches enlightenment
DVA: LITERALLY EXPLODES
Mercy: Just kinda flies around in the air for a bit and does her job, but better

Mass Rez could work, but it would probably need some balancing

109

The stacking is not great if it’s more that 2 ultimates.

110

Reaper says hi. Man, does he get me sometimes when he jumps down and gets a 5 man because he was the one person missing when we wiped the enemy team.

See Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

111

Could’ve been tweaked, but no one considered it. Oh well.

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114

The problem with old Rez (despite being counter-intuitive to Mercy’s role), is that it was an unfun/awful CRUTCH and an annoying one at that.

“Oh I don’t have to give 100%, just enough, since Mercy can Rez me with everyone else if I die on the point!”

“Oh 2 people died, I’ll stop trying and just drop dead so Mercy can Rez lol.”

“If I leave the safety of my tank, I can probably kill that top priority enemy over there. But there’s a 15% chance I’ll succeed in killing them before I’m killed… That’s good enough for me! Because I can just get mass Rez’d if we all fall because I died and made this a 5v6 match.”

Mercy’s entire value was determined by her Rez and how she used it. She was Rez the Character. And a character should never be fully defined by their Ult, especially if it promotes counter-intuitive gameplay (for her) AND gives up to 5 players a 2nd chance because they weren’t playing at 100%.

Then the cherry on top was: it’s annoying AF to fight against and made survival as Mercy even worse than it is now (enemy #1 instead of just a run of the mill Support target).

Current Mercy’s Ult:

  1. Boosts what she normally does, but can ultimately still heal just 60hps and boost by 30%. Can keep momentum or boost momentum, just like a normal Ult. 5 man Rez reset momentum which is powerful and not counterable (killing a character before they use an instant ability is not a true counter, sorry if you were unaware of how unfair that is lol).
  2. 1 man Rez every 30 seconds (with cast time) means replacing a quickly dropped ally is a possibility - a tempo Rez. She gets to keep Rez, but now it’s small and contained instead of being a total momentum reset.
  3. Since her value is no longer tied up in her Ultimate, she no longer has to hide when she gets Ultimate. (At ranks where people could actually aim, yes, she had to hide or it was considered throwing.) But even better for New Mercy, now it also means people aren’t FORCED to hunt her down before they even begin killing other enemies which is obviously unfun for Mercy and the people hunting her.
  4. It encourages better Mercy play. Since her team no longer has a crutch, she doesn’t either (which was hiding 20m-30m away from the fight the moment she has Ult and then being called a Godly player when she swooped in for the insta-Rez). A good Mercy is now a Mercy who has great positioning and judgement (and OK pistol aim occasionally). It’s now easier to survive since people aren’t FORCED to lock on to you the second they see her little halo so that’s nice for everyone.
  5. It encourages Mercy to do her damn job - her role. Her role is a mid-battle medic, fly around, stay alive, keep her beam active as much as possible. That was supposed to be her role from day 1. Obviously hiding and keeping her beam off for 10-25 seconds at a time is the direct opposite of what she should be doing.
115

There are two ways to use it, hide and rez, or heal and rez. Some hide, some healed, the ult itself is not counter-intuitive, how some people used the ult may have been counter-intuitive to Mercy’s character. Since Blizzard doesn’t go around telling people how to use ultimates.

Not awful, only unfun for the people who played against Mercy. Also annoying for the team against Mercy. Or it was annoying for the Mercy because her teammates are yelling at her to hide, even if it is better to not hide.

Her entire value was not determined by rez, but like any other hero, using your ultimate well is good.

Actually she was Mercy, the Hero.

I agree that a hero should never only be seen as a single ability. That being said, I don’t believe Mercy was ever only seen as Resurrect.

It never promoted anything, it’s an ultimate that has no opinion that gives no tips and tricks itself. The use and gameplay of the Mercy is up to the player themselves.

Yes, but I don’t go running around calling D.va bomb broken because it can wipe a full team. Like any other ultimate, resurrection is a hit or miss, it does not guarantee a won team fight but can be very useful. Like transcendence in a grav. You may have used it well, but your team can still get wiped easily.

clears throat "AN ENEMY ULTIMATE IS NOT MADE TO BE FUN TO PLAY AGAINST.

Dear god, a harder to play version of Mercy! BURN IT!.. There is nothing wrong with being a number 1 priority for the enemy team if you are a healer and have a strong ultimate ready. It is like Zenyatta and Transcendence, If you have grav and plan to use it, you probably want to kill Zenyatta before he can use it, or force it our of him. The only difference being that Mercy can’t use her ult to save herself unless one of her teammates are already down.

This is not true, once a team was wiped they lose all momentum, when they are resurrected, they don’t magically gain back all the momentum they had before they died. They start back without any momentum, but this time the enemy team can get into position to team wipe again.

I do agree though that Mass Rez needed tweaks and changes to make it more counterable.

Yes, that is how it works… :man_shrugging:

Cause it is tied up in her ability.

Again, like I’ve said before, nothing can ever make you have to hide, it is up to the player to do what they want to.

I mean, that’s what happens when you don’t have much of an impact, but there have been times where I have been solo-ulted, or where an enemy activates their ultimate just to kill me during Valkyrie.

I don’t know about you, but my favorite part about playing Mercy is being chased by the enemy and juking them with guardian angel. Not much other fun in the rest of her kit. Just the part they haven’t nerfed yet.

So you and many people say Mercy was powerful, but then turn around and call her a crutch to her team. Again, nothing makes you hide, and once again, doing something that is considered good, is not bad?

Yes, we need Mercy, who is and was considered the “Easiest hero” to be easier to play.

If your idea of being a mid-battle medic is staying a mile away from the fight and holding m1, then I think something is wrong with Valkyrie or you.

Again, hiding is not the only way to play Mercy, and most people who talk about hiding mean Mercy disengaging from the fight for 3 secs because the enemies used 3 ultimates and you know for a fact that you wont be able to save anyone. There is a huge difference between disengaging for a short amount of time and hiding for a long time for sr and potg.

Finally, I want you to remember that I do think mass rez should and could have received changes to make it more balanced.