How many ranks do we lose after 20 defeats?

Competitive Discussion
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Hi !

I’ve been playing some ranked games on an alt account that was between Diamond and Master last time I used it and I’ve already had 4 rank adjustments (4 x 7 wins) and so far it’s only been climbing (almost retrieved my OW1 rank).

I still didn’t get the 20 defeats but if anyone has, could they tell me if the rank decay is harsh ? I’m just curious 'cause I’m not sure I’ll be keeping up with Competitive (it’s just too boring for someone who has played ranked games so much for 3 years straight between 2016 and 2019).

Also, I’ve heard some people say that sometimes you wouldn’t rank up after 7 wins which is weird. Is that just a bug or does the system consider you not worthy of ranking up more in certain situations ?

Thanks in advance to whomever got the answer to my question :slight_smile:

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why are people assuming that just because you won 7 before you lost 20 you rank up?

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i came mighty close the other day to the 20 losses. managed to get the last win i needed before the last loss haha but i went from gold 1 to gold 3. some games i was playing well, just got out played by the other team, other times it was a complete disaster lol

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The annoying thing is the game still has a last 10 matches limit shown in your career history, so it’s hard to know where you are in your loss history if you aren’t keeping track at this point. My assumption based on in-game observation now is that the 20 loss recalibration is not reset when you complete 7 win cards (I am referring to cards in this case at the event that takes place in game when you win and it’s added to the list of won games needed to re-evaluate rank).

I was plat 5 at end of day yesterday and even today, but had a few harsh losses when I was grouped with my friends, but after I completed my current card I discovered at some point I had gotten de-ranked from plat 5 to gold 5 (because I ranked up from gold 5 to gold 2 just a moment before writing this post).

Pretty harsh decay, and I was not even aware it took place. The ranked system is so incredibly phoned in. It’s also impossible to tell the average SR of the lobby because it’s not shown anywhere and player rank is only shown in their profiles (if they’re public). My guess is that matchmaking is completely skewed right now.

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Because Blizzard said your rank will be “adjusted” after 7 wins or 20 losses. Which is really vague and could mean a lot of things. People wouldn’t have to assume if Overwatch just published their ranking algorithm.

The truth is SR still exists and updates every match, and the “adjustment” is purely illusion because all it does is reveal the SR you have rounded to the nearest division.

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What would be weird is ranking up after 20 losses… xD !

My question is mainly because someone in voice chat during a Competitive match told me that 20 losses = 1000 SR lost, which appeared to me as a lot of decay but considering how generous the ranking up have been during my 4 x 7 wins, I wouldn’t be surprised about those hypothetical -1000 SR.

I’m missing 3 or 4 defeats to reach my first 20 losses so I guess I’ll probably find out tonight. I can’t say I like or dislike the new system but every 7 wins meant ranking up for 2-3 divisions in my case so even if 20 losses = losing 6 divisions to 9 divisions, it still remains generous.

Keep up the good work :slight_smile: ! Tell me how many ranks you’ve lost after your 20 defeats. I would much appreciate it :slight_smile: !

You can track this actually :slight_smile: ! You just have to select “victories” in your career, click on whatever hero’s win rate and then you click on “change heroes” and then on “all heroes” and you then see how many games you won altogether.

htt ps://imgur.com/a/xB1lyhY (can’t post links, so just remove the space).

It’s in French, but this shows your time played, matches played, matches won and matches lost.

It’s never reset indeed. So you have to track your losses yourself since the game is not displaying anything after a loss, whereas every victory is.

Ok, so it’s impossible to decay after 7 victories if some harsh losses happened. Good to know. My alt account was low Diamond when I re-used it 3 days ago (3k7 career high). I stopped playing Competitive around 2019-2020 and I slowly decayed while doing placement matches only.

I started at Gold 5 on F2P Overwatch (which is the exact rank I had on OW1 after my placement matches in season 2 and ended up low Diamond at the end of said season. After 28 victories, I’m currently Plat 2. I’m 3 defeats away from having my first 20 losses. I wonder how harsh the deranking is going to be haha…

I can’t say… so far it’s been pretty generous with me. I thought it would be very slow to rank up. I’ve only played 8 hours in competitive and I’ve almost retrieved my rightfull low Diamond rank. It’s been much harder to climb out of gold and plat in season 2 but I guess it’s completely logical since I have now 6+ years of experience with the game.

But thanks to letting me know. I guess I’ll decay to Gold 2 after my 20 losses which again, is pretty okayish considering every 7 victories means ranking up for 2-3 divisions in my case.

I agree it’s pretty vague haha but the only good thing about this system is that you’re more focused, as showing your rank after each match could sometimes put pressure on players who were too obsessed with SR (on OW1). I also noticed that people are less toxic because of a defeat now. Maybe it’s because they know they’re close to their 7 victories which automatically means “ranking up” for them.

Can’t tell…

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but you make it sound like its guarenteed to change. why?
why do you think that just because you went 7 and 18 you will climb?

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I can’t tell if 20 losses is a guaranteed change for now. I haven’t reached that yet but someone in voice chat during a Competitive game told me it was -1000 SR after reaching those 20 losses. That’s why I’m thinking the change is guaranteed.

But I’ll tell you how much I’ve deranked tonight if I play on my alt acount. I miss 3 defeats to reach those 20 losses. Weekly challenges are resetting though, so I’ll probably be farming those first on my main account.

I don’t exactly understand what do you mean by that but so far, every time I reached 7 victories, it was automatically a ranking up for 2-3 divisions. I reached 4 x 7 victories and I’ve almost retrieved my OW1 rank that alt account was at before the F2P update.

That’s why I’m simply wondering how many divisions I’ll be losing after the 20 losses. Did you experience something different ?

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after losing 20, you probably are going to see a change but 1000sr is so far out there im confused as to why you are even entertaining the idea.

congrats? why are people not assuming the most logical thing? why are we not assuming that its the exact same system from ow1 with less transparency? any oddities with how much you gain can be chalked up to mmr being all over the place.

no, I’m good enough to manage to win 7 before I lose 20. id be willing to be that everyone who didnt place bronze 5 are in a similar boat.

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yeah? adjusted to what your rank would be after the games you played. that doesn’t mean you’ll see a change in division.

its true that there should be more transparency but that isn’t an excuse to assume absurd things.

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I came close to the 20 losses before 7 wins and I ranked up. Performance seems to be more important.

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I’ve already told you : someone in my team told me it was -1000 SR after the 20 losses but maybe I misunderstood and it was -100 SR.

What ? I simply answered your question => “why do you think that just because you went 7 and 18 you will climb?”…

I wasn’t bragging but it seemed logical that after 7 victories, your rank is supposed to climb a little bit and after losing 20 games, you’re supposed to derank… That’s what I understood from what people have been telling me.

I’m not assuming anything, I’m actually trying to understand how it works. The question of my thread is pretty clear : “How many ranks do we lose after 20 defeats”.

But if you’re telling me that we can rank up after 20 losses, fine by me xD…

Anything is possible…

What !!! Lol… Who said you weren’t xD… Why are you being so on the defensive. I’ve never said you weren’t able to win 7 games before losing 20 haha…

I was just assuming that maybe you’ve been playing Competitive for more hours than I did and that you’ve already reached 20 losses once and didn’t lose any ranks… That’s why I asked if you had experienced something different than me…

I’m not saying you can’t have 7 wins… Are you trolling me or… ?

What does that mean exactly ?

Oh thanks, that’s good to know. There are so many games that I lost by an inch where I performed decently (and sometimes because someone disconnected) so I hope I’m either not going to lose much in terms of divisions or even rank up if my performances were as good as yours (when I reach those 20 losses) :slight_smile: !

I’ll let you know, I don’t mind being judged for my rank xD…

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someone told me that the earth is flat, should I believe them? nah dude. I get that you’re asking for clarification on it but you shouldn’t have even considered it a possibility.

and that would be the case. you said it yourself, a little bit. that little bit could be small enough for there to be no visual change.

and thats great but why are you not starting from the most logical position?

let me ask you the same question in ow1 terms. do you win / lose 24sr without any variance? no, you don’t. why would this be any different?
the simple question you asked doesn’t have a simple answer.

you asked if I had a different experience, I said no. I am good enough at the game to win 7 before I lose 20. I didnt say that you claimed I wasn’t good enough. I simply explained why I have not seen what happens at 20 losses.

thats my point dude. no one who is even remotely close to their rank is losing 20 before they win 7.

it seems that everybody plat and down placed bronze 5. the players who didnt were better players. so the players who are more likely to lose 20, are in ranks where the 20 losses would not lead to a visual change.

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Why are you so toxic… I didn’t believe them at 100% or else I wouldn’t have created an entire thread to survey this more accurately…

Well, put yourself in my shoes : 28 wins made me rank up faster than on OW1 in season 2, so I thought the 20 losses would be more punishing. Why would people (in my elo) lie about deranking after 20 losses ?

I get it that this new system is very different from the former one but I’m simply trying to find common factors so I have a better understanding. I don’t get why you’re so hard on me. Have I been disrespectful to you at some point ?

If I were : sorry, I didn’t mean to.

I simply expected less ranking up from 7 victories. I feel like the system was too nice on me or something, that’s why I’m expecting to lose a lot of divisions after the 20 matches lost. I guess I’ll see how it goes in a few days (won’t have time to play Competitive tonight).

And what would that logical position be… ?

those variances were pretty slim on OW1. If you played well and won, it’s 30 SR or slightly more. If you won but performed poorly, it would be 21-25 SR (from my experience).

I don’t remember losing games that wouldn’t make you lose less than 30 SR (sometimes 28 in my recollection but maybe I’m wrong).

Well then feel free to explain it thoroughly, I don’t mind complicated answers. The characters to writing a thread’s title are limited. I did my best. I sincerely didn’t know that losing 20 matches could make you rank up if you performed well.

The only thread I saw was Bronze 5 people stating they haven’t been ranking up after 2 x 7 victories and called it a bug so that’s why I’m trying to figure this all out.

As you said, it’s not simple.

I wasn’t specific enough. I wanted to ask you if 20 losses (if you already reached them) made you rank up. If they did, let us know :slight_smile: !

But apparently someone posted something confirming just that so I guess it’s possible then.

No one said you weren’t !!! And even if you lost 20 games before reaching 7 victories, it wouldn’t mean much as there are 5 people in a team and sometimes 1 person is not enough to carry a match. As someone else said : you can have 20 losses and still rank up because of your performance.

Man / woman, you’re driving me crazy right now haha ! Please tell me you’re simply trolling me xD… That would reassure me A LOT.

Oh so you’re now finally confirming me that you still haven’t reached 20 losses. THANK YOU, now it’s clearer to me :p… Let me know (if it doesn’t bother you) if you decayed a bit or ranked up after your first 20 losses (when it happens).

I hope so but I can’t tell for sure. We would need a poll / survey to back this claim up.

Oh ok… Well since there was a 2-rank forced decay after the first rank placing (first 7 victories), it’s logical that people who were low plat in Ow1 would be silver or Bronze.

It’s still a bit harsh to win so many 7 victories in a row and still be stuck in the same division.

what do you mean by visual change ? If I follow your explanation well, you’re claiming that losing 20 games is less punishing in higher ranks or something ?

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Lack of transparency is the most valid excuse to assume things. If there’s not clear readily available official information, the only thing people have left is speculative vague unofficial information.

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its really not toxic dude.
someone told you something incredibly stupid.

that’s a reasonable conclusion to come to. 1k though?

we dont actually know if this is true.

and that’s fair which is why I am confused as to why you aren’t starting from something more logical.

I’m not trying to be hard on you, I didnt even come here to debate what it was you were trying to achieve. I asked why people think there is a guaranteed change after 7 wins.

did you ever place a new account in ow1 after the launch of the game? your sr fluctuates quite a bit. like upwards of 200sr for a win. i’d be willing to put money on the same thing happening here. the game wasn’t sure of your skill level and adjusts more quickly than usual.

that the system is identical to ow1. start from what we know and work from there. figure out if and how it differs.
starting out trying to validate an outrageous claim doesn’t get you very far.

that’s my point. they have your mmr from ow1. mine was recent and so it placed me close ish to where I ended ow1, and my gains / losses arent huge as a result of that. but if your mmr is from a while ago, then it is more likely to have bigger swings in rank.

the answer is it depends. the system is not transparent in the least. at best we can use the knowledge we have of the overwatch one ranking system and assume that at a fundamental level it is similar if not the same.
unfortunately, that still doesn’t give us an answer because ow1 also wasn’t very transparent.

I heard blizz confirmed it was a bug but I cant find it anywhere so idk how true that is.
to me it sounds like either a bug or that the visual representation of rank doesn’t have a floor. ie bronze 5 is <500 but you can place more than 500sr below bronze 4.

it is logical but ive seen people claiming to be placed in silver from masters so I really dont know who to believe.

if they go 7 - 0 I agree. but I see a lot of people claiming they didnt see a change after having something like a 55% winrate.

the rank you have is rank plus a number. those numbers are the equivalent of 100sr if we compare it to the old system.
you could win 7 and lose 4 which would result in seeing no change of the number.

not quite. it would be less punishing for those in bronze 5 because they cant go any lower. but it also happens that the people that are most likely to lose 20 are in bronze 5.

to assume things within reason.

speculative =/= absurd.
I could speculate that you have 6 nipples and 2 toes based on the information I have. doesn’t make it reasonable.

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Assuming by winning 7 matches without 20 losses / draws ranks you up is not an absurd assumption, it’s in fact almost exactly how Splatoon 3 does ranking. Except Splatoon 3 is a bit smarter in that the wins per losses becomes more and more even the higher you climb, meaning around mid rank it’s about 3 wins / 3 losses.

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nor is it the claim I was saying is absurd.

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Sorry I misinterpreted you then. When you said.

then after that said:

I thought given the context you were saying the assumption that you will see a change in division is absurd, because you didn’t really ever specificy what assumptions you found absurd and which ones you didn’t

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ill agree that it wasn’t too clear here. I had someone else’s comment in mind when I made the absurd assumptions statement.

yeah I could have worded it better.

I will say though that we shouldn’t assume that reaching 7 wins before 20 losses is a guaranteed change in rank. the way people are wording it imply that it is possible to climb with a negative win rate.