How is double barrier much different from the current meta

General Discussion
1

Double barrier = Long range high sustain meta.

Orisa = Long range high sustain character
Bastion = Long range high sustain character. (He was actually common in OW1 bunker comps which were originally just orisa but eventually adapted into double shield with sigma LOL ironic)
Torbjorn = Long range high sustain character with a shotgun component

Analysis you can’t play dive into this comp because torb and bastion hard counter dive and you can’t play brawl because bastion and torb are also good against brawl but not only that Orisa is probably one of the best tanks against brawl.
So your options are DVA in which you cannot play very aggressive or sigma or pick orisa yourself tell me how this differs from double barrier which all 3 of these tanks were common picks against or picked during double barrier (Outside of OWL)

Supports
Baptise AOE heal very useful in double barrier comps
Lamp very good at sustaining players

Kiriko Suzu very good as sustaining players

I think its ironic you all complained about 6v6 double shield but yet a lot of you are fine with this current meta with the support creep and Orisa which is basically double barrier minus the shields

Because you can have like 4 immortalities on a team.

How is getting bubbled twice then getting suzu’ed then getting lifegriped or Lamped much different from double barrier, couldn’t kill anything then can’t kill anything now.

I’d argue double barrier was actually more fun than this current meta and goats was a lot more fun and if I could choose between this meta for the rest of the game or goats I would 1000% play goats.

2

I don’t think anyone is fine with the current meta

I think the game currently is pretty close to having every character mostly equally viable, but that doesn’t change the fact that top supports and Orisa/Zarya do too much

3

What you are describing sounds more like pirate ship or bunker. Double barrier was more so about keeping the team alive for as long as possible while attacking In order to either waste the enemy’s time or to keep attacking. Which heavily favored the defending team.

Prior to Sigma, double barrier could not work with Rein and Orisa because Rein cannot attack while his shield is up. When they added Sigma, there is now two tanks who could attack while their shields were up. So stacking them together created one heavily fortified position.

Basically, double barrier was hard to push in and it took long to break down.

4

I said that and bunker comps in late OW1 were a type of double shield variant.

5

I would actually argue double barrier is a variant of bunker.

Double barrier originated much later into OW1’s life span. It started when Sigma was added.

I personally would not use Torbjorn or Bastion for double barrier. Maybe Widow and Hanzo instead. Assuming we had a second tank. However I would use Bastion to break a double barrier comp.

6

I guess that’s true from an angle.

My angle is its a variant of double barrier because it utilises two barriers in the double barrier bunker comp.
But if you look at it chronologically then sure I guess you could say that is a variant of bunker too.

No I agree I wouldn’t use torbjorn either I would use bastion though especially on 2cp maps and other certain maps on defend in OW1.

I’m comparing torbjorn because he is a high sustain hero with a long range component which is similar to what OW1 double barrier is high sustain comps with long range.

Personally if I was running the optimal double barrier comp in OW1 without bastion I’d probably run something like Cassidy, Soldier, Baptise, Orisa, Sigma, Brig.

Brig + Cas for dive Soldier for his consistent damage output etc
Baptise because he has really good sustain on any type of imobile composition

7

Bastion isn’t a long ranged high sustained hero. He lost his healing abilities and is still an easy kill.

Torbjorn is a defensive builder, based around sustained, static defenses.

Orisa isn’t long-range. Short to mid range, sure.

Bastion doesn’t counter dive. Torbjorn can to a degree.

Baptiste area-effect healing is useful, but not particularly stronger than any other Support healing. Moira is often better at this than Baptiste.

Immortality Field is useful for breaking down powerful area effect attacks, like Rip-Tire, but doesn’t really sustain players; just prevents their deaths for a brief time.

Similar to Immortality Field, it covers a potential deadly area effect attack (like Earthshatter, or Rampage), but otherwise isn’t too unusual.

Eh, Supports really aren’t doing anything more or less than what they have done in the past year. But a lot of players are now far more cohesive at understanding how the game works and plays, to avoid more dangerous attacks and avenues.

As for Orisa and Zarya… certainly an issue with Orisa to some limited degree, but I’m not really seeing any real problems with Zarya that cooldown wouldn’t fix.

Double barrier was a thing as early as Overwatch launch with Winston and Rein. This was toss aside in favor of Roadhog prior to Orisa’s release.

Everything is largely correct.

IIRC, Bunker favored Ashe and Tracer, Doomfist and Sombra. Pharah was also useful in cases where Widow or Hanzo weren’t threatening.

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8

Bastion definitely does counter dive, you can play one dive hero into bastion and that’s DVA but you won’t be able to play like a dive tank you will be playing more like a Brawl tank with periodical diving times in which you will just be shoving defense matrix down his throat while using missles and cycling that until he dies.
I wouldn’t really call that dive.

Mid range longest range tank similar thing.

He has armour which makes him easier to sustain and he has armour regain in turret he has sustain, his definitely not an easy kill especially with good supports positioning and peel there’s a reason why his considered meta in the current season.

Yeah sometimes I would somewhat agree with this.

9

That is how I am looking at it personally.

She got nerfed in the first week, but people would run Symmetra in double barrier comps. She was very good at breaking the enemy’s double barrier but could also peel off divers as well.

The poke is good, but I feel it would better to trade one of your poke DPS with a DPS that can deal with dive instead like Reaper or Mei. In order to deal with divers like Doomfist and Winston.

Funny enough Bap was released to deal with double barrier, so he can be a double edged sword. If needed, Kiriko is a good substitute. I would argue she might be better actually since her suzu is on a lower cooldown and it is better at meeting break points than immortally field.

Ha, I did not know that. I was not around when that happened, probably started playing much later.

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10

I’m talking about OW1 optimal double barrier comp kiriko isn’t released yet.

The reason why I said cassidy and brig is because cassidy has his old stun and so does brig which is insanely powerful against winston.

For example you could potentially bash dva’s defense matrix stun winston then just blow him up instantly, but idk I was only masters around the time of double barrier so I wasn’t some meta guy back then, I only played double barrier when my GM teammates got me to play it

I mainly played Winston DVA zarya only throughout all of OW1.

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11

Ah I see, yea old Cassidy was not fun to go up against in close range. Brig also had armor in her packs back then.

I mostly played Symmetra and Sombra throughout my entirety of OW1.

12

Because when a barrier is used right, it’s another healthbar.
And I know how scary Rein is now.
His shield was 2k back then (:

Now add another barrier tank to the charging problem.

13

I always tried to play rein but could never pick him up that’s why I picked up Zarya for if we had a rein player even now I can’t pick him up I just play Doomfist Ramattra only now with occasional winston.

And if we didn’t have a rein player we would be playing double bubble or Winston dva dive.

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14

You are better than me, I sadly cannot stomach to play tank anymore. I fully accept that it is just a me problem.

Although, I sometimes like to play Junker Queen.

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15

One of the key counters to classic Sentry-Bastion entrenchments is Tracer with Pulse Bomb. This still works.

Another is Genji with Deflect back as Bastion. This still works.

Reaper’s shotguns against Bastion’s thick frame overpower his meager firepower in CQC. This still works. Reaper also has the ability to turn immune at Bastion’s more damaging attacks, and safely approach or reposition.

Sombra can Hack and disable Bastion and safely approach by stealth. Still works.

Some tanks, like Roadhog, can pull Bastion right out of his dangerous modes. Still works.

These are recent buffs due to the fact that it is possible to overpower Bastion as he transforms in Assault mode and kill him before he can do much anything in defense (think Hanzo turning on Storm Arrows, but with a 3 second cast time instead of instant). The result is supposed to give him an opportunity to defend himself; but classic focus-fire is still possible to wreck him. Or bait him out, stall, and then pile on the damage. Rather, the biggest issue with Bastion now, is his Tactical Grenade; they’ve recently tweaked this, and it should be okay for now.

Bastion isn’t really the problem though, it is the Tanks he associates with.

16

In double barrier, there were two barriers. In this meta, there are not two barriers. I would argue that is quite the difference.

17

Its the sustain that made double barrier an overpowered comp all the AOE heal and immortalities with the op sustain abilities on orisa and sigma with grasp and fortify.

Less so the shields IMO similar to this current meta samito just made a video today basically saying the exact same thing I’ve said on this post yesterday.

https:/ /youtu.be/h6QflmvzZbg?t=1600