People keep telling me that because mccree doesn’t win alot he deserves these buffs and that hes also not pick that often. But it honestly feels like mccree is in every game and mccree is one of the few characters that can hard solo carry.
Where do people even get the stats that say mccree isn’t played all that often anyways???
I could stream 10 hours straight and sometimes I do and i will have a mccree in every single game. Maybe i should do that. Every time I stream just count how many times the cowboy shows up in my game in plat vs how other characters i want to play are virtually unplayable and causes the team to just say “f*** it im throwing since he’s playing that character we cant win no matter what…”
Edit: also like if I buy an account in silver or something and played mccree every first round then my main which is junkrat every round after wards and won every game would that mean my mccree win rate would be 100%???
For pickrate, Google Overbuff. They trawl public profiles and collate the data. The numbers aren’t exact because private profiles are not counted, but it’s large enough for a representative sample.
When you’re there, you can sort by rank, time period, and role (Minus Symmetra, who is still listed as a Support for some reason, and the other DPS heroes are still split into Offense and Defense categories.)
If you look at it, McCree is pretty consistently a top 3 DPS pick among all ranks but Bronze and GM, but his winrate is one of the worst among DPS heroes. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s because he’s perceived to be super strong, so people swap to him early in losing games, but he’s not great in actuality, so he rarely changes the outcome.
They mostly look at overbuff. You need to view Overbuff very critical through, because 1st:
If you sort it by GMs only, you will only see low GM players stats, because nearly all GMs are between 4000 and 4100sr. Therefore not as good to measure the performance of hereos on the highest lvl, like many think.
Also dont forget that Overbuff only shows public profiles. Why is this a big deal? Because people who play niche Hereos are way more likely to have their profile on private than people who play well received Hereos, because teammates love looking at your profile and pick anything from there to assault you, if you play a niche Hero.
(Example: I as Brig player very commonly get people talking my profile and picking one stat which isnt good, or try to assault me with “you only play Brig, you abuse her!”" and stuff)
Therefore the statistic gets manipulated by how well reveived a Hero is.
Overbuff also mainly shows NA and (maybe?) EU too. In many Metas Asia plays something totally different and if you only look at ovwrbuff hereos like Brig, Monkey and Zarya seem to be bad, while in Asia they are Meta rn
Also dont forget that puckrates still dont exactly represent how good a Hero is. How much fun the Hero isnto certain people, how easy itnis to get value and how many people can play this Hero + manynither factors also influenze pickrates
Because of these 4 effects, Overbuff needs to be seen quite critical and by no means shows the exact strenght of any Hero. It is interisting to look at and can be used to support an argument, but many forumers here only show overbuff and act like this is a 100% proof a Hero is bad/good, which doesnt work.
If it was based on wins and % then bastion would have a one shot hook could fly and got monkee bubble with how crappy he preforms.
They buff cree cause they want to blizz does what they want to do usually never makes an ounce of sense. But common sense aint so common even from a billion $$$ company it seems.
Fun fact: Doublebubble started getting back into the Meta early 2021 as a Ball comp counter, therefore I can send you quite a lot of links if you want to of pros having this matchup, with Sigma instead of hog through. It got played on a bit brawlier maps like kings row zntil it became fully meta on most maps.
But now how to play:
Doublebubble is a comp nearly nobody in ranks really understands, so I break it into 2 pieces. How you optimaly play it and what you can do in ranked to playnit better.
How to play it optimaly:
If we want to know how to play a matchup, we need to think about what you have and the enemy not and opposite.
BallHogBrigZenCass has a ton of opportunities for flanks, with brig and zen every Dps will be able to flank without problem, cree is not the easiest to push with flash and both Tanks can flank without much need for support.
This comps strenght is that it can attack from near infinite angles.
Doublebubble is a quite brawly comp, but unlike
full brawl comps it needs time to engage, because ifnyou simply jump in as monkey you wont get much value. You need to rotate your core (zarya+sups) in a good position close to the position where the fight will happen, and then need to charge some ults and Zarya charge in order to really be a big threat.
So the goal for the ball comp is: While the doublebubble farms ult, you would like to get a fast pick and play quite aggresive, like OG triDps dive. Coming from every angle and trying to overwhelm the enemy with the angles to catch someone offguard and kill someone/ drain reccources enough to kill someone. But: Once the DoubleBubble have their recourcess and engage, you cant deal with them and need to try your best to stall the engage out. Stalling the engage out doesnt always mean running away, it can also mean dealing heavy damage to monkey andnlater zarya, because without them the push will stop.
For the doublebubble its thw opposite ofcause, you try your best to farm reccources, vut need to be carefull to not get picked. Once you as a team are ready to push, you shoudl try to end the fight quickly, because if your push is over the enemy will have the upper hand again.
Rally enables your core to push forward, primal or nano are needed to enable your monkey to really push in for the push and grav can be handled as a wincondition, so you do everything as regular and engage and while the misfight is happening you use grav to clear the fight off. You dont want to use grav and primal before your team is able to follow up, primal might be an exeption if you already messed up and need it to save your live.
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Now to how to apply this to ranked:
You cant control your mates, but as Monkey it is possible to know that you alone are not a big threat. If the modfight isnt there yet and you are still in prep phase, dont engage too deep in and play carefull, you will die extremely quick otherwise. Taking damage can be usefull through to farm nano, so you can do small “soft dives”, either to distract the enwmy team and give your core time to rotate (for example to enable your team to get through anubis choke on 1st point attack), or you can softdive on singular targets on offangles, to force them to go back to their team. Important: Dont chase targets for too long, you getring them away from the offangle is already a lot of value, chasing them for too long can cause you to die, especially if they are already back at their team.
Only hard engage if your team already did, or if you see both of these condition being true:
1st: Your team has some reccources to help you push in (Primal, Nano, Rally…)
2nd: Your Core is not too far away and can acrually follow up
There are other factors, like how many angles the enemy has, but these 2 are rhe most important ones.
As Zarya, know that you wont get too much value at the start of the fight. You are a caryy, useless at the start, but extremelynpowerfull for the actual midfight. Try to farm charge so you deal a lotnof damage during midfight and most importantly:
Rotate. You want to rotate into a position where you can follow your monkey up if he hard engages, but you can also rotate to push some enemies away, this one can be risky in rankes theough because it needs time and during this time someone else may already goes in alone.
But whats really important is that you get the basics right, like dont overextend and dont randomly push in without an advantige.
Against flank comps like these its also important to denie some flanks, so if your ana is able to heal you, you can softdive onto a Cassidy on an offangle and scare him away or maybe even kill him. Denying offangles makes it much easier for your team to not die and put more reccources into you.
Thanks so much dude! So double bubble is a comp all about building up your ults, then pushing when you have ults?
How so? I’d think ball would be a good counter because he can boop zarya and winston all over the place.
For this point, are you referring to double bubble comp being able to flank? Or ballhogbrigzen flanking without much need for support?
Like are you saying that the zarya and winston can flank without much need for support?
So what Im getting at is that while the monkey soft dives, you rotate with your supports to a position where as zarya you can peel for your supports but also go in with your monkey? So like 15m away from your monkey and 15m away from your supports? (in an ideal situation)
What if they’re always doing that? Wouldn’t that mean they perma hard counter the comp? Like if you have a hog, cass, ball focusing you as winston.
the prep phase is where you farm ult right? thats all?
Speaking of angles, in double bubble do you play in a straight line similar to brawl, or take off angles?
Pick rate And win rate are both numbers taken from Overbuff that are viewed by the community as being “empirical measurement sticks of hero performance” in overwatch even though there’s very real questions about how OB gets these numbers and their validity as data….
But regardless…you then take those numbers and frame them however you want to make your point about the games “balance” and argue over the slightest margins imaginable…continuously….for 5 years so far…
I can count the same how many balls, dooms and other stuff that forces me on cree when I don’t like to play the character at all. Dive is meta so cree just follows up. However, you can’t win those matches by just playing cree, he requires tons of enabling, peeling, and stuff like that to work. That is why he still has his 47% avg wr, when most of the tanks and supports get 52-55%
Well, if the patch is right even comps which seem to not work against something can become a counter.
Best example is Dive being played as a counter to TripleTank early 2017, despite Dive usually not being the most efficient way to beat Brawl.
On certain maps, kings row and anumbis are fantastic examples, ball comp had a dofficult time to utilizice many different angles, due to the map structure not allowing it as much as on other maps.
Therefore on these maps you could have an advantige with Doublebubble, because you can make use out of the rather close ranged and brawlier map structure.
There is also the fact that Ball engage started getting a bit toi weak eith all the other nerfs to the comp and some teams waned a little more power for their engage, while Monkey survived way more than people thought.
If you want a detailed version, here is a video from natter (tier 2 coach) about it. He will go way more into detail than I ever can and will explain it a lot better, but in short its just that the nerfs to ball comp and Monkey tanking more than people thought, which caused some teams to try out new stuff.
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Particially yes. This was an oversinplification by me ofcause and I would phrase it rather this way:
“You build up an advantige first and then push”
(Thats still a bit simplified, but how most fights work)
You do this with most comps, but with Doublebubble its quite extreme because it is weak without reccources.
It doesnt always need to be ults, but ults are the most common example. A pick, a good position and many more can also be an advantige big enough to push, in certain situations.
Also particial yes.
Its true that you want to rotate into a position where you can follow up on monkey if the fight breaks out. I dont like specific meters as an example, but I think you only did this only as an example anyway.
(PS: You dont need to rotate when the monkey softdives ofcause, but its usually the best opourtunity. If you get another good oppurtunity there is ofcause nothing wrong with taking that instead. Please keep in mind that I only list examples and suggestions here and not “always 100% follow it rules”^^)
The support part is where I disagree a bit. Support position can vary depending on the situation quite a bit, so these are just common habits, not set rules:
Usually the Brig wants to stay right next to Zarya. They both form the close range brawl and increase each others sustain a lot, kinda like a budget rein/Zarya with AoE heal. Anas position is most of the time right next to Brig too, so they form a 3 player package usually. If the rotation is already done theough you may see Ana splitting a few meters into a bit saver position and maybe she wants to stay there for the modfight too, depnds a lot on the situation.
But during rotation all 3 are usually quite grouped up, because if you rotate as a group you can increase survivabillity a bit, because the enemy is less likely to focus on am individual target.
Sorry for the missunderstanding ,I ment that Ball and Hog can flank without the need of much support
Yes, thats exactly why you need to build up any form of advantige, modt commonly ults (but not exclusively).
If you have a Monkey with primal and Nano this ofcause doesnt work anymore, since you cant just burn fown a basically 2000HP monkey wirh 2 bubbles. (aeven theough you should try to avoid using nano and primal both at the same fight).
Am advantige like alucky early pick, or a good position ,or a good ultimate is what helps you to break through this.
Prep phase is just everything after regrouping and before midfigh, so basically yes. It also means setting up into certain position and getting other forms of an advatige too ofcause.
Depends. During prep ohase you play more on your own, because poking is more efficient if ot comes from manyndirection instead of just 1 getting blocked by a shield. And some hereos like Monkey and tracer manage to rotate way faster than Zarya and Brig ofcause, so during prep phase its hard to be as a group anyway.
If you are actually engaging into the midfight, you dont want to play too split. Your Dps will likely be on an angle, bu atleastt Zarya and Winston should push togetherm doesnt has to be at the exact same location, its more important that they push at the same time on a simular target.
Attention: aangles itself are always good. If I mean playing for angles I usually refer to like a Widow being alone watching an entire path and attacking from therey or an Tracer coming from behind and stuff.
But even in full Brawl comps you still like smalm angles, like puhsing from the side as reaper is still better than staying behind your rein.
With playing for angles ai mostly mean really watching an entire angle for a long portion of a fight, this should not mean that taking any angles at all in lther compsnis bad.
Therefore in doublebubble, you dont really stick as a 6man core and press W, but you still play as a group. Like a beeswarmnwith a specific radius, you are a group attacking a rather small spot, but still come from different sides.
In Bap Lucio Brawl you see for example the teams forming a “U”, because they want to split up somewhat, but still need to hold hands. Like if you chain a öotnof kids up and then say they should spread as much as possibley spreaded up but still as a group if you understand what I mean
So: During prep phade you tend to play more split, but if you engage you attack more as a group, which doesnt has to mean throwing the concept of angles entirely out of the window through
Sorry for writing this last part so detailedy I wanted to be sure I dont cause any missunderstandings
OMG thank you so much dude!! I finally get double bubble now. THIS IS SO HELPFULL. You explain it so well.
I just wish I could play with a team that I could coordinate this information with. hopefully someday!! I mean for a start most people don’t realize having an ana/brig is a MUST HAVE with double bubble. That would be a good start
Iam glad it helps. Also I suggest watching some doublebubble and focusing analysing what they do. Like pause every few seconds and question every little move.
Since even pro teams make many mistakes, this doesnt always mean its a perfect example of how to play. But it is in my expirience a great way to understand how a comp works practically, since I had learned the hard way that thinking about comps to theoretical can sometimes lead to a bit unrealistic expectancies.
PS: I just noticed how many spelling errors I did in the last text, Iam sorry for that…
