How DF and Echo define Genji

You know, one of Blizzards main concerns is the unique feel of each hero. This tells us a lot about the balance they should prefer.

Genjis fate was settled long ago, when the OW story was written and the concept of DF was made. The idea of a one hit flanker may sounded good on paper, but what the story writers would not know, are the balance problems that came with it.

Basically heroes can tend into either attack, defense or mobility. And maybe utility for some heroes. Genji used to be the burst flanker, but when DF was introduced, he simply got replaced. Now Genji is just the vertical flanker. However over the time it has proven, that this is not enough to compete in OW. What defines the game these days is basically the first kill.

And for those reason, the fate of Genji and DF are tied together. But I am not sure if Blizzard really understood that themselves. I am very sure, their top priority is to create unique hero experience. But the balance changes they made seem to not address that.

There are two ways to balance this issue. Either nerf DF or buff Genji.

In the end the advantage Genji should have over DF is his mobility. His dash. It is the definite Genji skill, like the punch defines DF. So, I see Genjis future in some kind of dash buff. Getting into the battle faster and getting out faster to avoid damage. This is the real ninja action we need.

Edit: Totally forgot to mention Echo. I wrote about her below.

Doomfist is one of the worst picks in the game and you want to nerf him? :rofl:

This is bait

17 Likes

But Doomfist and Genji got a completely different job…

Doomfist like you said is a one shot diver. Amazing option when enemies don’t have a lot of defensive abilities or cc that need to be taken down.
Heroes like Soldier:76, Zenyatta,Symmetra etc…

But Genji’s main focus is actually his deflect… the hero is good against high damage.
And sure, most high damage heroes also have less defensive abilities as a trade of but it’s not all of them.
Genji counters Bastion, a hero Doomfist can’t do anything to.
Genji also counters Junkrat, a hero with a lot of cc and mobility.
Last unique hero I can give is Orisa, a lot of defensive abilities with some damage Genji can use better than Doomfist.

That’s a big mistake I think a lot of people make when taking about genji, his focus was never burst. His deflect and double jump are.
The reason he’s bursty in the first place is in order to fight high damage targets better.

A big reason for most people not noticing that is the lack of projectile tanks and projectile support who can actually shoot while healing.

The more damage you have the better you hard. But when teams run Rein-Zarya who ignore deflect or at least don’t increase its damage and support like Mercy get a lot of play especially for their healing, less for their utility then Genji’s deflect just becomes worse…

Genji’s design overall is very solid but he just needs more heroes his deflect can get value from in order to feel more unique and special.

4 Likes

Totally disagree.

What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear Ninja? Speed and agility? Or standing still and deflecting bullets? Deflecting bullets is cool, but his whole kit performs around dash, even DB.

Genji does not counter Junk. Junk does counter Genji.

Bastion is dead and countering him means nothing. Besides only bad bastions shoot into deflect.

Deflect in general is weak the higher you get, because good players just dont shoot into it.

Also its not reliable. Deflecting a firestrike can hit hard, but its not really worth the playstyle. Besides good reins dont shoot into deflect.

Tracer just over here like… Cheers love! The cavalry’s here! As if pulse bomb isn’t a burst flanking attack.

DF is best in rush, Genji is best in five.

DF does not replace Genji. You say that because they are both mobile.

At the moment, he is there instead of reaper if he is picked.

3 Likes

Define rush. There is no real difference. The thing is, DF would perform good in dive, as well.

DF is mobile and burst, like Genji used to be. That is the reason.

There is a huge difference.

One is diving into the weak point of the enemy or isolated target and burning cooldowns to kill that specific target, stabilizing with map control then doing the same again.

The other is just blasting right through the enemy and brawling it out until you kill them all.

Rush can out sustain a dive, which is why it beats dive.

I can’t link here but you should look at some of the OW coaches on this topic.

It helps you identify what your team can do to turn a game around. A lot of the time it’s a team comp problem at my rank (plat) rather than an individual (which is what most people blame when they are losing).

How many genji threads you gonna make? :thinking:

Sure. Extremely mobile hero with small hitbox obviously needs burst damage.

2 Likes

He has a medium sized hitbox, has the worst mobility of every single flanker, and is meant to be a mobile burst damage duelist(which is what the devs said his role is) but he deals no damage.

To op: doom doesn’t need nerfs

false

subjective

devs said about blade. His role outside ult is be a jackal

go to 6:32, his chest and legs are pretty big. Plus his mobility has areas where’s he’s vuneralbe(i.e when falling after he double jumps.)

His mobility is based off of getting kills, unlike other flankers who can disengage and engage whenver they want. Except for sombra he has the worst mobility of all the flankers(and sombra can get out whenever she wants so her mobility is more consistent.)

They literally said back when they buffed him that they wanted him to be a mobile burst damage hero, they never said sanything about his ult back when they buffed him.

“We are generally trying to find a stronger niche for genji, especially now that he’s competeing against both Echo and Doomfist as a mobile burst damage hero. In this experiment, we pushed his strength towards dealing with hitscan heroes through deflect. Additionally, we made adjustments to his shuriken damage and secondary fire spread to improve his close range damage and consistency. We feel both of these changes bring us closer to our overall goal of bringing Genji in line with our other mobile burst damage heroes.”

1 Like

Doomfist is a brawl hero at heart but ok?

6 Likes

Isn’t Doom just a strictly better version of Genji aside from maybe Genji’s one synergy with Ana?

Doom isn’t even a flanker, he’s a rush flex DPS who synergizes with speed and brawl. Genji is a dive DPS who requires his team to ‘dive’ a target with mobility and burst damage. Very different heroes

1 Like

Nope. Even chest and legs aren’t big.

What? :rofl: Нe can double jump and reach any high ground without kills. He has incresed movement speed as passive.

Devs said about power in general. Other mobile burst damage heroes have burst outside ults, genji doesn’t.

They’re about medium for a squishy. Like the center of his hitbox is bigger than most 200 hp heroes.

Both of which leave him vunerable because it moves him a predictable manner and one of which is absolutely useless in duels and is only used for setting up or stalling. His movement speed buff doesn’t even make a difference in-game anyway, and unlike other flankers he doesn’t have much burst mobility. If you’re struggling to hit a genji double jumping in 2021 I suggest you take a look at your aim.

Where did they mention his ult lmao? They talked about how he’s competing with doomfist and echo for the mobile burst damage hero role, they never brought up ults in the first place. Plus if you’re talking ults echo has a better one anyway.

:rofl:

Cool. Double jump is absolutle useless in duels. Why do players use it?

:rofl:

  1. Is Genji mobile? Yes.
  2. Is Genji a mobile burst-damage hero? Yes, when uses his ult.
  3. Should he be at the same power level as doom and echo in general. Yes.
  4. Should he has burst dmg outside ult? No.
    They decresed genji’s spread to make him more consistent

No need to be rude

I’m talking about wall climb. Good players can track double jump anyway.

Use ur words, the movement speed is just qol that helps him not feel clunky.

Or you can do what every other genji player asks for and take power out of blade(which seems to be their direction with him anyway.)

They never mentioned any of these and I’m sure that they’ll go down the power shifting route like they did with the previous genji change.

1 Like