How can Dva be any good when everything about her is bad?

[nfcnorth-1711]

@Goldlantern-1543

That’s why she’s almost always one of the most-picked tanks at high ranks and in OWL. She’s at #3 in GM right now.

Most picked is a stat that gets used so hilariously badly and misunderstood its an achievement on itself. If you make every hero a clone of each other and nothing else matters D.va and Mercy would dwarf every other hero for how much they get picked.

Why does this matter when heroes aren’t clones of each other you might ask. Simple people jumping in gravitate towards designs they like, the rule of cool (i.e being a Cyborg ninja increases people wanting to play Genji) and other non-gameplay reasons to pick a hero. And when you are dealing with one the extreme ends D.va who is the most popular character period for OW this problem gets cranked up to 11.

More popularity equals more people practicing her more practice means more experience on a lot of people. More people practicing her means that you can find a substitute player more often. Finding a substitute player more often for d.va means its easier to plan around her and harder to plan around the other options as they don’t have as many practiced players because not as many people wanted to start learning them in comparison to the most popular overwatch character.

Bare in mind that even when a player doesn’t play d.va they still might be better at d.va than the other option simply due to time played on both heroes. Its not exactly a secret that you will do better with a hero you personally have played more with than one you haven’t messed with alot. And d.va has a huge edge at this simply due to her popularity (more people who start out picking a hero means that more people are likely to have more playtime on given hero) not actual gameplay. But this often gets ignored or discredited when it really shouldn’t be.

tldr version: Alot of the problems with d.va being “good” is actually she has a ton of players and simple experience gaps.

[Goldlantern-1543]

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think D.Va’s popularity is what leads to her high-rank pick rates. She falls off a lot in the middle ranks. She’s at her lowest in gold through diamond but bronze/silver players use her a lot and her GM pick rate is more than double her masters pick rate.

Most D.Va players stay at low ranks and can’t break through middle ranks, which leads to her negative perception. It’s only back at the highest ranks that players are seeing her value and using her to the fullest. D.Va isn’t just being mastered through the ranks, she’s being intentionally picked by the best players for how strong she is.

[SeraphLance-1303]

Popularity’s effect on pick rates is going to be way lower in GM. A character simply can’t can’t be #3 tank in GM if they’re bad.

[nfcnorth-1711]

Except pro players are just as much effected by this than every other player in the game. Just because you are a pro doesn’t mean you don’t practice the heroes you like and getting them to work. Also pro play also has it own additional issues like with it. Like the fact they drill so hard that they get used to certain things that can actually changing their ways harder than the average joe.

@SeraphLance-1303

Popularity’s effect on pick rates is going to be way lower in GM. A character simply can’t can’t be #3 tank in GM if they’re bad.

Except it very much can and does. Why wouldn’t you pick a hero that people have tons of experience playing with over a hero that people don’t play with as often? Take ball for an instance and how much inexperience with playing him can cause huge issues for your team. If your playing him your teammates are less likely to know what to do with him than they would say a Zarya or D.va. People get used to playing a certain way and expecting there tank to be able to bail them out even if the tank player is on a hero that is physically incapable of doing what that teammate wants them to do.

[GreenTrotsky-1332]

@Goldlantern-1543

Most D.Va players stay at low ranks and can’t break through middle ranks, which leads to her negative perception. It’s only back at the highest ranks that players are seeing her value and using her to the fullest. D.Va isn’t just being mastered through the ranks, she’s being intentionally picked by the best players for how strong she is.

Thanks for admitting that if we use a secular economic analysis, IE leave feelings out of it and consider balance a numbers game, Dva is undeniably an underperforming hero at every human rank

[SeraphLance-1303]

@nfcnorth-1711

Except it very much can and does. Why wouldn’t you pick a hero that people have tons of experience playing with over a hero that people don’t play with as often? Take ball for an instance and how much inexperience with playing him can cause huge issues for your team. If your playing him your teammates are less likely to know what to do with him than they would say a Zarya or D.va. People get used to playing a certain way and expecting there tank to be able to bail them out even if the tank player is on a hero that is physically incapable of doing what that teammate wants them to do.

Most of those players won’t get to GM, and if the character is actually bad, most of those players that do will learn to play other characters.

For an example of this, look no further than Genji. One of the most popular characters in the entire game, less than 1% pick rate. Or everyone’s favorite edgelord Reaper, so low on the list he’s currently in the hospital for limbo-based injuries.

[nfcnorth-1711]

@SeraphLance-1303

Most of those players won’t get to GM, and if the character is actually bad, most of those players that do will learn to play other characters.

For an example of this, look no further than Genji. One of the most popular characters in the entire game, less than 1% pick rate. Or everyone’s favorite edgelord Reaper, so low on the list he’s currently in the hospital for limbo-based injuries.

Being gm can actually increase the problem though. Gms are some of the most stubborn people when it comes to adaptation and drill in there heads that game has to be played a given way for optimization reasons it causes issues if they aren’t on something commonly practiced. They get used to follow up that may not be their when you switch tanks.

The little combos being practiced alot is more of a thing in gm than it is other ranks. And again the more popular you are the more likely the little combos can be practiced.

[Goldlantern-1543]

GMs and pros are humans, too. It doesn’t take super-human reaction time to play D.Va well, just coordination and some thought.

[Haise-11848]

Dva is not bad, it’s that Rein is powercreeped. Rever the Rein buffs (85dmg and 550 armor), give him back 3sec shatter, then Rush meta is not forced 100% of the time. Now you can play Dive since Dva and Winston got buffs recently. When Bap’s immo becomes dmg reduction, backlines are punishable, so Dive is back. When Genji is powershifted, you’ll see more Dive.

Fix the game = Dva is good.

[GreenTrotsky-1332]

@Goldlantern-1543

GMs and pros are humans, too. It doesn’t take super-human reaction time to play D.Va well, just coordination and some thought.

It does take insane reaction times actually, and insane levels of game awareness, far more than a tank like zarya or sigma who does not really need to reposition anywhere near as often.

And unlike most tanks, she has to play corners and sightlines like a squishy more than relying on her own defences or else she can be demeched super easy thanks to the easy mode critbox they put on her.

[Reign-11778]

@TiderLaw-2312

Defense matrix does almost nothing

you have to be playing her abysmally to think this

unless ur referring to visual bugs and sometimes it not registering?

[Goldlantern-1543]

I spent lots of time playing tank in GM, D.Va included, and I’m just a regular person who plays a few hours a week (less now than when I was GM, but still). I’m an above average player, but I promise D.Va is accessible to regular players. She just takes more thought than most people are willing to put in with her. Playing smart is the most important thing with her. Playing her as a fat DPS, solo assassin, or frontline tank is what gets most D.Va players wrecked and that’s how mid ranks think she’s supposed to be used.

[Alyenor-21688]

@HintOfMalice-2431

Well, you don’t even have a good excuse then. I really don’t know what else to tell you.

Nah, I just know better.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Teamfights are usually relatively close range.

That’s even worse. This means teams are more stacked together, so D.Va can’t realistically go on an enemy to DM them.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Does DM have the ability to eat all of McCree’s shots or not?

So do barriers.

@HintOfMalice-2431

it’s also ambitious to expect to have 6 targets with kill damage ramped up on McCree.

Exactly why barriers also block it.

@HintOfMalice-2431

But McCree with only small amounts of charge can 1 shot Orisa’s shield.

Nope. It’s a 600 shield, which means that McCree needs at least 3 fully locked 200HP heroes, and the shield will only die at the third bullet. Without killing anyone.

@HintOfMalice-2431

McCree holds it for longer.

This contradicts what you said above.

@HintOfMalice-2431

DM is a very strong ability and saying it does almost nothing is a ridiculous statement that borders on insanity.

If DM is strong, then there’s a ton of abilities that can be qualified as “strong…”

@HintOfMalice-2431

Bio nade’s heal boost property is a strong ability, oh but it doesn’t prevent the whole team from dying. It can’t counter ultimates reliably the way that IF can, therefore bio nade’s heal boost is bad?

BioNade and IF are completely unrelated though. They don’t even have the same role in the game.

@HintOfMalice-2431

It seems this way because what you’re comparing is the number of things blocked, which is a stupid comparison.

It is worse in the number of things blocked, in average damage blocked, in the quality of what is blocked.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Using the amount of things Barriers can block isn’t an argument, when half of them award relatively low amounts of value for blocking them.

It’s not low value.
Try playing a day without any barrier tank and come back to me.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Again, wrong.

Ever since Sigma got released, D.Va has never been good for her DM. The few times she has been good, it was for her ability to kill.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Is this a joke? Kinetic Grasp is literally a worse DM.

Good job failing to read.
I’m saying Experimental Barrier is a beter version of DM.

@HintOfMalice-2431

DM matrix is instant protection, whereas Sigma’s shield often has to move for a while before it is in the right position

Depends entirely on Sigma’s position. But within 10m, it is a similar cast time (yes, DM has a cast time).

@HintOfMalice-2431

it can’t be blocked by terrain

DM doesn’t go through walls.

@HintOfMalice-2431

it does a better job of self protection and it does a better job of protecting a teammate that is in the middle of a dive

The second part is straight up wrong.
For self protection, Sigma has Kinetic Grasp on top of his barrier… Plus a stun.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Across the history of OWL,

I’ll stop you right there, IDGAF about what OWL plays. OWL has only caused catastrophic balance and should be plain and simply ignored.
We already saw the weirdest changes in the past (nerfs to Sombra say hi), the patch they made last month was even worse.

@HintOfMalice-2431

If Sigma is a better Dva and DM is useless where Barrier’s exist, you’d think that the pairing would be 2 shield tanks, one of which is Sigma.

You don’t even realise D.Va wasn’t played with Sigma, but mostly when he was banned.

[BackHandOfF8-1218]

Just a reminder to all those people who say “DVA IS GREAT CAUSE DM” it’s already been demonstrated that dm doesn’t function properly enough to be reliable defense on its own. This has been the case since the range nerf partly because it drastically reduced the size of the cone that DM creates.

So please stop with the talk of Dva being the best she’s ever been. Can she work? Yes. If and only if your team fully supports your plays. Otherwise she can’t reliably do the one thing her kit is currently supposed to be good at: diving.

Other dive tanks can function almost independent of the team. Winston, ball… Neither of them need someone to cover their dives. Dva flat out requires dive partners to be effective and keep from feeding.

Fix DM. Increase the range and widen the cone. Then at least it will be reliable enough to be called good.

[DvaDiff-1921]

Defense matrix would be a gerat ability if they didn’t keep adding abilites that by-pass her DM and more stuns.

Not even that, her defense matrix is super unreliable with a BUNCH of bugs that have YET to be addressed by ANYONE.

MAJOR Defense matrix bugs and glitches [Thread]

All 4 threads show the visuals not working as intended. These visuals obviously need to get reworked, I can’t stand this anymore. All basic matrix glitches: Matrix bends while boostering in the air and looking straight or down (or at-least when i tested it). Matrix visuals show you eating the pellets/projectiles yet doesn’t save the team-mate in front of you. Matrix visuals slow to react to what’s happening. Zarya grav can sometimes go through defense matrix when there’s other things th…

[DvaDiff-1921]

Here’s another instance of DM not being able to “protect” like it’s suppose to even when it’s suppose to.

https://clips.twitch.tv/IcyLuckyBatCoolStoryBro-OAFvInYc9vtSOqWj

[Naz-11562]

Defense Matrix’s issue is that its paltry duration has to be allocated to self-peel AND ally peel. No other off-tank has to share like that.

[GreenTrotsky-1332]

@Goldlantern-1543

She just takes more thought than most people are willing to put in with her.

Correction: she just takes more thought than any other tank just to give a “not throwing” performance, and ungodly reaction times and skill to give a “great” performance, which makes her nearly unplayable at lower ranks. Even winning is not fun, because your winstreaks have to end earlier if you want to make sure you can maintain that unreasonable performance and not lose SR, compared to if you’d chosen to main another tank.

Hence why this onetrick has at least a week or two a month that I don’t even bother to log in anymore.

[PlatNecros-1189]

the best thing about her is probably bomb. you dont really need to kill any thing to get value.

[nfcnorth-1711]

@HintOfMalice-2431

Except neither of my sentences were wrong…? At all? Does DM have the ability to eat all of McCree’s shots or not? I think you’ll find it does. Ok, sure, in a game perhaps it is too ambitious to expect to eat all 6, but it’s also ambitious to expect to have 6 targets with kill damage ramped up on McCree. But McCree with only small amounts of charge can 1 shot Orisa’s shield. If there is a second target behind the shield, they will be shot and killed. Sure, it is true that hypothetically Orisa’s shield can block multiple shots, but in practice, McCree holds it for longer. Unless you’re at the level where McCree’s ult is basically a suicide button, in which case what it can or can’t be blocked by really isn’t a helpful discussion.

Want to know a fun fact? McCree can wait out 100% full charge dm with highnoon as it has more uptime. McCree has to time his highnoon poorly for it to be eaten. This doesn’t even mention the fact McCree isn’t the only one who is going to be shooting at D.va or threatening to ultimate. Or how her centermass crit box makes dm even more of a necessity from normal fire so its unlikely to be even at 100% against good McCrees.

@HintOfMalice-2431

Is this a joke? Kinetic Grasp is literally a worse DM. The things the weakness the you exaggerate in DM actually and literally apply to Sigma. He can only protect himself and people standing right behind him. He can’t even steal projectiles from an enemy not looking at him unless he is literally standing on top of them. DM has a significantly higher up time.

It literally has to be a worse dm because he has a barrier and ranged stun to go with it. He has two defensive abilties that can defend the team no other tank has that option. But even though it has to be weaker its actually arguable that grasp is better because it allows you to face tank better immediately after it ends. Dm offers you nothing after its done unlike the possible hundreds of temporary health you can get of grasp.