Kinda, but also just frustrating heroes in general.
And I’m saying that as somebody who mains annoying heroes.
But that the goal in general is that the primary meta(s) for high ELO should be “not slow”.
And that the overall goal should be to minimize frustration in the game, and maximize fun for as many players as possible.
And if something doesn’t fit into that model, then they go down in pickrate until they can get “retrofitted” for the current planned goal.
An aggressive playstyle has always been the best way to climb and the lack of it is a main part of what differentiates high ranks from middle and low.
Aggression is and always has been rewarded so I’m not sure how you’re claiming defensive play is stronger. Easier perhaps but if you always play defensively you’re holding yourself back.
Huh. In stand corrected. Still. I still don’t think the ‘defense’ heroes being meta, like widow and orisa, should really ever happen. The more aggressive heroes also tend to be the harder to learn ones cuz of how easily their mistakes are punished
While I don’t agree with OP, they are correct about this. The defending team has the immediate advantage because the attacking team has to attack to progress the game. If the defending team and attacking team don’t interact, the defending team wins. Defending is easier because all of the pressure to engage is on the attackers, AND it starts out with a positional advantage.
You are talking about sides, not about heroes themselves…
OP premise was that heroes with defensive playstyle have an advantage over a heroes with offensive playstyle. This is vastly different discussion to “defending side has the advantage”. And, frankly, sides don’t matter in a competitive environment as my friend, thicc buddhist god, already said. Both teams get to play “op side” so both teams get to have same advantage/disadvantage as the enemy on the most maps. So this is just irrelevant to the topic at hand!
In that case, nevermind. I thought he meant playing defensive heroes on Defense vs aggressive heroes on Attack.
Actually, not true. Team comp matters a lot here. On a map where attacking is stronger than defending, attackers that go hard aggro with mobility and damage will win over attackers that go more carefully with Poke.
The “op side” matters a lot when hero pools come into question. No one can play every hero at their best level. If someone’s hero pool is better than someone else’s for that map, they win because they were able to play the “op side” more effectively.
I don’t consider this a problem, but it is absolutely true.
Sure… But picking right hero for the job or overcoming a disadvantage that your hero choice gave you in a specific situation is a skill in the game.
If you play a sniper on a map without good long sightlines and refuse to switch when you can’t do your job then this is quite literally a skill issue.
So in your example, the team that went poke on a map that it doesn’t make much sense chose poorly and it is on them. Yes I know that one tricks and mains and such do exists, but then we are getting back to a thing I already said here:
This is much more complicated issue that one might think. And I am open to discussion, but I doubt any one will have it since we don’t have a way to gather stats needed for it!
And I’d call that part of a skill in a game like Overwatch. If you refuse to learn more heroes you accept that you need to be that much better on the chosen ones to overcome their shortcomings in the situations that puts them in a disadvantage.
I agree that all this is true, and I also don’t see this as a problem.
Terrible take. Variety in playstyle/strategy options is good. Complete misunderstanding on skill aside.
Lol
Me when I dash at a glocking Mercy to kill her as Lifeweaver and she almost kills me cause I had to take 200 seconds to reload.
I respect if you have a preference, but you’re out of your mind if you think it’s
“mechanically and mentally” “way easier” to play defensively than offensively.
If you play support, you need to manage so many things, including every other player. If you play dps, you can go from bronze to GM if you are good enough at clicking heads.
Notice how the most popular cheats are simply aim helpers? Aiming is skillful, but it’s the least mentally intensive thing you do in this game, and the most brilliant player ever is still dead if you are good at clicking on their face.
And I’m not talking the enemy lifeweaver lol.
It’s also the single hardest thing to learn. Gamesense can be cheesed through intense research. Aim, on the other hand, is completely static. You can’t cheese aim. You have to practice… Trust me: learning gamesense is not as hard as people make it out to be. The only thing holding themselves back is a general lack of desire to learn.
Also, when that ‘variety’ has caused defensive heroes to nearly kill the game twice, now, I think they all need to be looked at. Defensive heroes as a whole with ridiculous sustain or area denial need to be killed for the health of the game.
That’s one of best images of meme i ever seen. I often seen low-quality of cute pikachu.
If you want a game where aim is the most important skill, go play COD. OW isn’t for you. You can’t ‘cheese’ gamesense. Watching videos will only get you so far.
This entire post seems like nothing but someone who wants to play hitscan, and is upset they’re not good enough to climb, so they want to nerf heroes instead of actually improve their own gameplay.
Bruh…
I 100% agree. Defensive heros are ALWAYs the heros that are annoying and horrible. excluding sombra. All other stupid annoying heros are defense, and meanwhile you have offensive heros out here struggling to do anying against any defensive hero.
They already looked at it by going 5v5 with role lock. 5v5 inherently is a more aggressive game mode and rewards more aggressive play. Aggressive almost always trumps defensive in OW2. no reason to even bring up OW1 as supporting evidence for your take because the game is entirely different now.
Aim does not matter in cod at all. You spray rng, and things die. It is the least skillful shooter of all time by design. It’s designed for hypercasual morons who hate the idea of getting good. I used to play OW because, especially back in early years, there was a perfect balance between aiming and gamesense. Both were extremely important to doing well. Then, they gigabuffed sustain heroes and added so many high defense heroes to the point where it’s STILL too strong over 4 YEARS LATER, and we’re in this mess now.
Furthermore, aim should be equal to gamesense. It’s how it was years ago, then they decided that sustain needed unnecessary buffs, and the game is still suffering to this day.
Edited to clarify it was friendly ones. I play Pharah.
Then orisa, torb, bastion, and bap should be F tier.
Orisa and Baptiste are aggressive heroes, or at least are played aggressively. Orisa also isn’t even the top tank right now.
Bastion is/was overtuned. Bastion became good when his DR and high output supports enabled him to be played more aggressively. Torb was and, to my knowledge, isn’t even picked anymore. The supports that output damage (Bap-Illari) and the supports that enable aggressive plays (Ana) are the good supports.
I prefer the game played as aggressively as possible. So I get it… but this is such a poor take.
Even goats wasnt defensive, it was two masses smashing into each other.