Hog, Pharah, Kiriko should have invisible passive

Hog, Pharah, and Kiriko should all also have the invisible passive.

If you disagree, skill issue, you’re bad, that’s the real problem. It’s not because you think it’d just make the game stupid or ridiculous, it’s solely because you aren’t good, which cancels all reasonable opinions you have otherwise.

EDIT: This is parody. Bruh, I picked 3 of the current most complained about heroes in the game and suggested adding the single most annoying passive in the game to them, lol, no, I’m not serious. The point is that you can say it’s a bad idea and the response of the whole forum will STILL be “skill issue”… It literally doesn’t matter what anyone says or thinks because “skill issue” magically invalidates everything… It doesn’t surprise me that people attempt to use it as their magic braindead argument… But it does surprise me how many people react to it as if it’s valid or makes any kind of sense most of the time it’s used.

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What’s the point of discussing if you’re going to diss people if they disagree?

Great question, and it’s actually the point of the post. If you post anything reasonable in the forums at all, the answer the entire forum gives you back is always the same thing… “skill issue, so all of your opinions are cancelled”.

If Hog, Pharah, and Kiri were invisible, it’d make the game utterly ridiculous. But if you complained about it, “skill issue, complaint invalid”.

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Troll post for sure, but I get the sentiment :joy:

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Hmm,

Well I disagree with your sentiment, but I appreciate that you didn’t insult me. b :cow:

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It’s pure paradoy. I’ve literally never said “skill issue” to another person. Personally, I usually lose all respect for a person the moment the resort to using that phrase. It’s just a way of saying, “Because you aren’t as good at the game as others, your opinion just doesn’t count, even if it’s reasonable… you don’t get to have opinions, I am god, you are peasant”

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I mean…that is what it boils down to, yes.

There are balance problems and skill issues. Most people try to frame their skill issues as balance problems, which…no. That rightfully gets shut down.

There is truth to this. I’m not invalidating what you are saying entirely.

But I just don’t think the idea of solely balancing the game based on how it plays for the top 0.1% of the playerbase makes sense.

Every single balance issue can be overcome with skill. All of them. In theory, every single issue in the game can be a skill issue. Pharah could have a 90% win rate, and I could argue that it’s a skill issue. But I wouldn’t, because I’m not a ridiculous person.

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“Captain, a Romulan Bird of Pork is decloaking! It’s preparing to fire its garbage beam!”

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If you don’t, getting better at the game actually punishes you. Which would basically mean that everyone smurfs to avoid the balance issues and competitive integrity collapses. Balance around that top 1% or all of us will just smurf into your lobbies and roll you over and over until you quit the game :man_shrugging:t5:

There’s a reason why top down balancing is the go to for every competitive game.

Incorrect. Being much better than someone playing a busted hero isn’t overcoming the balance issue with skill. If the skill levels are even and one hero is just absolutely dominating, that’s not a skill issue. That’s a balance problem. Skill issues gradually disappear as you go up in rank. Balance issues usually start getting worse as you go up. There’s a pretty distinct difference here.

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Oh I see

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What I’m saying is this.

Yes, top down balancing should be prioritized. How well the game is balanced for the highest ranks is, indeed, the most important.

But in a game like Overwatch, there are so many balance changes that can be made that DRASTICALLY improve the overall game experience for middle and lower ranks, that have very little influence or effect on the upper ranks.

It’s those changes, that I don’t think should be ignored simply because they aren’t needed in the upper ranks.

Such as? Small changes can completely dumpster an entire meta in high ranks. Any drastic changes for metal ranks could mean a literal rework to the game above that

How badly do you think the overall balance of the game needs Sombra to have permastealth?

And why, in particular?

Pretty badly, because otherwise she’d be completely terrible…

Not really a fan of dumpstering heroes because people aren’t good enough to face them :man_shrugging:t5:

I agree. make Pharah invisible. Tired of seeing her obnoxious face. Make her dissapear devs

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You think there’s no way to keep her from being terrible without having permastealth?

Btw, you’r very reasonable person… I’m not trying to ego-debate you here… just making sure to clarify that, so you know my tone of voice isn’t misread… I fully respect your thoughts.

What I’m saying is that there is obviously a line drawn in the sand somewhere in terms of what becomes ridiculous and what doesn’t. Example, a hero could be designed that doesn’t even have to leave spawn. (this is just me trying to come up with an extreme example of ridiculousness). This hero would not actually have to interact with the other players, but would build an ult like every other hero. Once the ult builds, they would one-touch Q and kill all 5 enemy players, Nuked.

Can we agree, that would be ridiculous?

Now, if you are in spawn at the time of the Nuke, you are not killed. It could be overcome. And more importantly, which enough data and precise calculation, the speed at which that ult builds as this hero sits in spawn could be perfected so that it’s actually technically “balanced”.

But balance is not everything… because ridiculousness enters the picture at some point, for lack of a better word.

My point is, there is a line in the sand somewhere that each person draws in terms of what is “fun” and what is just ridiculous.

In my opinion, permastealth is just ridiculous. It’s HONESTLY, I can’t emphasize this enough, I’m being HONEST when I say that it’s HONESTLY not because I simply think it’s “hard” to deal with, or that I am not “good enough” to deal with it. I can deal with it. I promise you, I can… I played OW2 yesterday for like 13 hours, I faced Sombra’s in probably over half of my matches… Sure, she kills me sometimes, but I’d say the average Sombra at this point usually targets me early and starts to lean toward the idea of targeting someone else instead, because I tend to deter them most of the time after an encounter or two.

But, in my opinion, not being able to see a hero at all (until they find the perfect time to blindside you) is over that line of ridiculousness… I mean, if she only had 10s of stealth to position herself, it’d be different. But the fact that she is able to just roam the map freely without having to worry at all about the very fundamental principle of being “seen” at all, just seems “ridiculous”… because there isn’t another word that captures what I’m actually trying to say here better than that word.

I may or may not have two accounts that I play OW on. And one of those accounts may be higher ranked than the other.

And so other thing you have to realize is this.

In the lower ranks, oh my god man, the number of pure trolls just skyrockets. Yes, they are in every rank, NO doubt. But in the lower ranks, and by lower, I mean Plat and down, the number just skyrockets.

And Sombra is just an absolute GODSEND to these people. They don’t care about playing the game. They care solely about picking a target and trying to piss that target off. That’s it. Ruin someone’s day. Spark a reaction. Make people mad.

Personally, I don’t think the devs should give players like this such a blatantly PERFECT tool like permastealth to use to so EASILY spend the whole day trolling other people that are just trying to play the game and have fun.

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Not with the current trans locator. Look she had temporary stealth before and the tactic was still to ambush someone from invisibility. Even if it was timed, she would only fight you while being able to ambush you from invisibility. It wont change the fights you have with her. She’ll still ambush you and you will either die or force her to translocate and then she will engage you again when invisibility is up. I do not undertand how a timer will fix that

I can face Sombra no problem, she just sucks the fun out of the game for me. Especially when I’m the only one who’s watching out for her on my team. I have to constantly be looking behind us, sometimes shooting at nothing because I think that’s where she’s attacking from (works 50% of the time). It usually forces me to play Moira, and when I’m playing QP I’d like to practice other heroes.

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Well, I agree, more would need to be done aside from just removing the stealth… And I know a total rework of her AGAIN isn’t exactly likely… but for the sake of discussion, yeah, the rest of her kit would need adjustments as well. I think she’s one of the coolest heroes in the game and very much want her to be good and fun to play with and against.

And I’m not sure if a timer would fix that on it’s own. I’m not sure if there is a way to keep stealth at all without her being such a frustrating hero to those of us that just really enjoy the game so much less due to that one issue. But in the past, at least her hack wasn’t possible while she was invisible… The combination of both… to me, it’s just the fact that it restricts you so much from using the map and enjoying the freedom of playing the game… I can do it… I just simply find it a lot less enjoyable.

How I’d go about changing her kit, I don’t know exactly. If I thought devs actually cared what I thought, I’d love to come with with ideas, but I am sure it’d be just a waste of time fantasizing about a new kit that never gets even read by a dev in the first place.

Yep, you get it. It’s just like that feeling of OHH FUN TIME!! wait nope, sombra :slightly_frowning_face: