Hero swap is bad on many levels

General Discussion
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On a scale of switching instantly in battle, to having your hero locked for the entire round, we have a really poor middle ground which does not reward skill or strategy and diminishes attachment to the unique ow heroes

The ‘toolbox’ argument: That the game is about swapping at it core (it’s not)
It just encourages both teams to start with the most busted meta picks every time. There is little value in off meta skill/strategy because the opponent just has to make one swap and your value is gone.

OW doesn’t even test the ‘toolbox skill’ very well - we can’t swap modality during battle. If I switch heroes, the opponent can’t swap quickly in response. This results in lopsided battles (sombra vs widow for example) which is why people say its ‘rock paper scissors’ gameplay.
The difference of Quake champions you choose the gun for the situation while in overwatch you wait until death + walking simulator.

The game at its core is not about swapping (edit: the way it is implemented now, which could be greatly improved). I don’t know a single person who got into overwatch because ‘gee whiz i can swap mid round to a limited set of heroes under the condition that i died or walk back to spawn’
Hero swap results in maybe 1 of 4 games you play the hero you want for the duration and still get value.
This doesn’t fit with the message of overwatch. Here is a diverse cast to represent you, we all have special strengths and contribute in a unique way buuuuuut if things aren’t working out drop that steaming pile of a hero and switch to whats easier.
Overwatch’s greatest strength is larger than life unique gameplay heroes not found in any other FPS, why force people off heroes they have become attached to? doesn’t make sense

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People need to realize, the more heroes they implement, the more likely you will come into a situation where you should switch or are punished for your pick. People started playing the game because of some characters and how they play and while there are a few “evergreen” heroes in the game, most heroes are just not.

Jimmy can stay on 76 all games every round without a problem, but Tom with his Sym pick is should switch, because his main is niche.

Its just how it is. The “I dont swap” mentality of some people is also the reason for those stomps people cry about. If the enemy has a Pharah and none of your close range DPS are willing to switch, you will have a serious problem in most ranks.

You can hate hero swap, but its required or you will lose more often than not and like I said, the more heroes they bring in, the more hard counters for heroes exist.

Dont want to switch? Fine, but then stop whiling about your loses and that your teammates are complaining all the time.

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I did. The primary reason I started playing ow is the ability to switch and adapt

I don’t care about being “represented”, lol. I’m only interested in gameplay

The point is - you want to take away the game I came to because it doesn’t suit you? Exit’s open.

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yay roly can do one thing right, not swap for 1400 hours;) game on! player say adapt, want to pul out autisme card but i refrain myself in doing so:) why you say?? wel my autisme card dident work 2:00 at night when i woke up the entire building, so no thank you;) Update: only had a warning, was video editing

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If we didn’t have the ability to swap hero’s I’d have stopped playing looooong ago.

I’m a tank main, and say I’m Rein (no bias Kappa) and I’m getting utterly diffed by an enemy tank. There is absolutely no way I’m staying as Rein, I’ll be swapping to a more suitable tank or I’m going to cost my team the game-and that’s grossly unfair. Same with all roles-if I’m getting diffed I’m not sticking with that hero, I’m countering or we’re going to be in big trouble.

Same with if I’m DPS for example. Say we’re losing for example, but I can spot a weakness in their backline or comp, which can result in swinging the game back in our favour. I’m going to swap out to the hero that can best exploit that weakness. Knowing that if I pick said hero we can win, but chosing not to-that’s borderline throwing.

So by all means keep thinking like that, that is your choice but you will get flamed for it by team mates. People will vehemently disagree (I disagree), but at least you made your point constructively.

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There are some things here I disagree with, and other things that have merit.

Swapping heroes has been a core part of the game since it’s release. It’s a big draw, having a character to fit any niche. Did you pick projectiles and beams when the enemy has pharmercy? Lucky for you, you can swap to hitscan and turrets to counter her, instead of being cannon fodder all game

Playing the character you want vs playing the character your team needs to win can be at odds. That is just part of the game, this is why in OW most people don’t one-trick, because in some games it can lead to a miserable time.

We all have characters we are attached to and enjoy playing. You do not have to swap. But, if you don’t, then you need to know that the game might become harder to win as a result.

This is because the game relies on hard counters to keep some heroes in check, Blizz have said they want to move away from this, but then they continued to add CC and hard counter heroes… which is the part that baffles me.

I think they have backed themselves into a corner on that front.

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swapping is fine, like quake weapons, but having to wait for death + walk from spawn to contest a lopsided battle is not. It makes for rock + paper +scissors and both players on heroes they don’t want to play.

just to clarify I don’t have a problem with swapping heroes in principle but overwatch is not good implementation. If the game was really about swapping then the heroes should be transformers or a collection of guns.

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I don’t like to switch. I play my favorite hero for fun.

In Battlefield series I don’t switch my main specialization and feel good.

If don’t play for fun, then why play OW at all?

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IDK where did you get this from but this is false: It is.
Switching to counter is a Core value of the game. It always was, it will always be.

This is an oxymoron.

You can’t praise uniqueness and hate counter picking. The more unique the heroes are, the more counter picking will gain relevance. Check CSGO, where everyone is the same. You dont really “counter pick” there, you just adapt strategy/tactics wise.

What you said is like saying “I really love swimming and scuba diving, but it doesn’t make sense that I have to get wet”.
:man_shrugging:

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hero swap is fine when you only can pick softcounters. the problem start when you pick hardcounters to transform the enemy pick on a troll pick just for exist.

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Swapping was intended to be part of the core game when OW1 originally launched. When we won game of the year. Introducing role lock and trying to balance it was step 1 killing and limiting the game. Open queue 6v6 will always be the best most balanced format because you have the opportunity to pick any hero to cover the team’s weakness. 5v5 was step 2.

You cannot balance or rework heroes made for one environment then limit everything they do to fit your format.

If you couldnt swap the game would die imo.

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while its understandable for you to have this mentality, its incorrect.

a niche hero doesnt have to be that easily counterable, this is something blizzard did on purpose early on to force people to play more heroes but it wasnt designed this way at the start.

its not the game people fell in love with.

the funny part is that the only role that doesnt need to swap is support. and im goin to bet thats your main role

when i was playin support i never once needed to swap because the heroes are broken.

its funny to me that its always support players or like soldier/sojourn players that say things like "swapping is just how the game is played, yet those people never need to swap.

the reality is you dont need to swap until like top 500 if your good enough but most of us arnt top 500 smurfs.

once you are in a rank thats equal to your skill swapping becomes a must to win, but if your under top 500 you kinda wanna sit on the hero so you can learn how to win those fights (this is how you continue to climb).

which then feels bad and it demotivates people from playing.

this sums it up really well.

old overwatch was about soft counters, modern overwatch is about hard counters. unless your smurfing the hard counters can make your main impossible to play.

try playing genji into zarya, sym, brig, pharah and kiriko. unless your necros in a plat lobby it aint gonna happen

or try playin pharah into quad hitscan + dva, not gonna happen.

this isnt how the game used to be and it does feel bad. you can eventually get better and outplay them but the journey to that point is painful and boring.

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Look, imposter, idk who sent you but there’s only one Vorpal 'round these parts.

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IDK where did you get this from but this is false: It is.
Switching to counter is a Core value of the game. It always was, it will always be.
[/quote]

You are being a pedant here, I say switching is core, you said switching to counter is core. It’s the same thing.

there is a difference between unique heroes with counter play and rock paper scissors. Games literally exist with unique heroes and no role swap like HOTS and Dota. Obviously OW in its current state can’t support that because it has bad design. Look at the forum and how many people complain that they can’t play their hero

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Umm id say i got into it for just that reason. Ive always been a flex player and have enjoyed it. Blizzard made a mistake to treat the characters as tools but give them personalities that draw people in and then dont swap.

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To try to see rank go up, get upset at teammates, and blame + flame like most of the community, duh

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First off take a chill pill with the insults.
Second, you are the one saying “its not” on parenthesis, like clarifying the Tool box argument doesn’t hold up.

So make up your mind my guy, because you are either wrong, or you wrote that sentence wrong. Take your pick.

Yeah you are definitely confused. Point by point :
1 - You literally cant switch heroes mid game in HOTS, so this is not applicable. Also this is an FPS with RPG elements, not a MOBA.
2 - OW doesnt have “bad design” , it is design with the “switch to counter” mechanic as a core value, so its not annoying, bad or unbalanced when many situations “soft force” you to use that mechanic.
3 - People complain literally about everything my dude. This is not an RPG, so people that play this game like an RPG dont have valid complaints.

Again, unless you BLOCK the ability to switch at spawn (OOF good luck with that), more Uniqueness in design implies more differences, therefore the counters will be more prevalent and stronger.

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lol jokes a side its kinda this but its less about the number/icon and more about the sense of improvement.

thats a big reason why people hate counters (feeling as if you improved only to be rendered useless because someone picked a certain hero doesnt feel great).

it doesnt help that you have certain coaches telling ppl counters dont exist until top 50 and like he isnt wrong when you look at it from the perspective of a rank 1 player… but its very disingenuous to say that to the average player.

most arnt going to go from plat to a top 500 level of play over night, its a slow grind of self improvement and along the way they are going to lose a bunch of matches, thousands tryin to get better.

which then demotivates people from playing those heroes.

why are their so many hitscan mains in high elo? because the journey for playing projectile heroes well enough to hit masters or gm isnt fun

why struggle on X hero when Y hero does the same thing but better and easier?

all hard counters do is force people onto the hard meta/ best picks right away. it effectively takes away the variety in the game

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19

I like flex style as well, but the current way it’s implemented is not good for the game.

Swapping mid-battle which would be a higher test of flex skill. Right now it just encourages lopsided fights with no recourse until you’re dead or you walk back to spawn.

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The biggest niche picks in old OW1 were Symmetra, Torbjorn, Bastion, and Junkrat. All of them have hard counters. Three of those heroes have the same hard counter. That’s part of what made them niche; they only really worked on certain maps or against certain team comps, and the best way for them to deal with their hard counters was to play around them.

This statement was more true in OW1. If I had a dollar for every time I had to switch to Kiriko in my games just to have a chance at winning, I’d be rich.

Sometimes I miss the days when people were complaining about one-tricks in their GM lobbies. Folks used to be so dedicated to climbing and being the best at their favorite hero that everybody considered it a problem. Nowadays people just seem so quick to give up at the first sign of failure.

Old Overwatch was full of hard counters, that was how the game was designed. Genji, Sym, Zarya, D.va and Pharah were all in the first iteration of OW. Zarya countered D.va, Soldier countered Pharah, Genji countered Bastion, etc.

Like… these were all here before.

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