What? Every match has 1 winning team and 1 losing team. The total win rate averaged across all players has to be 50% in a game that only has two equal sized sides. That means an above average player is recognized by having a win rate higher than 50%.
You can’t just change that. It’s the natural result of having a winning and a losing side, not some decision about ranking algorithms.
A real GM player will not tank, under any circumstance. What you are saying is the system is heavily based on random teammates.
That’s if you start in the middle. If you start at 0, they can just accrue points per win and incorporate PBSR into how many points are earned. Sure people will be at 0 till better players are sorted up, but then eventually they will move too.
that’s just never going to happen.
Anyone past 3k is already pretty much 3k+ on every role by default just from not standing still in the middle of the street like a gold. Ok maybe 2.8k for a 3.1k but at that SR range a few 100 is not a big deal.
but up into the rare air of GM even 200 is night and day different.
a full reset would just be horrible games for everyone. You really expect Surefour to bring his OWL level game with a Plat tank vs a Bronze team and whatever?!
Then keep in mind placements can be done at any time in a season. So the poor players near the baseline starting point, honest players who should be there skill wise, just get 100% ripped all season by players doing placements and “starting out”.
at least with what is looking like a smush move of the old SR system into new system the pain of a slow per role SR correction at say a 40%-ish rate is spread out over a very wide range.
Way, way better than a GM just going full dunk mode on everyone or a bronze being asked to tank for diamonds etc.
the simple truth is while not perfect the SR system isn’t as bad at rank people as many seem to think, making a reset pointless. We also knew a new 222 system would have some growing pains. Odds are next season is that ouch season.
I think he is referring to the way the system is rigged to force a 50% winrate for ALL players, not just for the playerbase as an average. The system creates matches where you are 50% likely to win.
Yeah this just isn’t even remotely close to reality. Considering I am spanking, and yes spanking Masters players on my account that is high gold-low plat (in qp). See they say they are trying out dps and I get that, that makes sense, they may not main dps. Your assumption is no where near logical.
Also why are they in my QP games if their MMR is so high on that role?
Oh, well, if you only move people up when they win and never move people down, or move them up much more than down, it can sort of work. There are ranked systems that work like that.
They are very grindy, do not make even matches, reward time played over skill of play, and generally involve regular seasonal resets. See Hearthstone (or at least they had a ‘start at the bottom’ ladder the last time I played, with a ‘soft reset’ each season that moved you down substantially but not necessarily to the very bottom).
Such systems don’t put you against equally skilled opponents, nor do they try to, they are more like a continuous tournament and are probably only suitable for single player games.
I imagine people would be very angry if they kept getting mid-silver skill players in masters-level games because the weaker player had simply ground out enough games to climb.
You can move people down but not past 0.
The system we have is pretty grindy too.
It really accounts more for grind than actual skill.
Which is why the tone is “I am afraid to lose SR” as opposed to what it should be “I need to play more to climb”
If you’re moving people down on losses as much as up on wins, then we are back to the initial problem: Only people with an above average win-rate will climb, ever.
I think pbsr would keep better players from falling pretty far, but now we are just tweaking numbers to make another system work ideally.
I also think in a system of climbing losses could not be valued equally in SR points to wins. And PBSR should impact that.
because QP goes with an over all team average sort of vibe along the lines of 4+3 is the same as 6+1. It’s why you will see stuff like a GM+bronze with mostly gold players vs two diamonds, a plat and maybe the rest gold.
If I’m on some QP team as a meh 3k player odds are there is another me on the other team and then the rest could be almost anything. Most of the time it’s going to be gold/plat being they make up something like 50% of the player base.
and I hate to burst your stomping in QP bubble but you’re maybe getting someone’s B game, at best. A masters+ player in a game full of masters is a totally different stage then you standing 100% still in the middle of the street like a gold and clipping them as Hanzo being the other team has no main tank.
Keep in mind at the GM level people at say 4.4k will mock 4.1k player as being trash. They are not suggesting anyone is 4k support and 2k tank. Being to them 2k isn’t even a real rank and like 3.8k is terrible.
The system you’re describing would be extremely grindy and would never create balanced matches. There’s nothing about it that is an improvement on what we have now, even if it could with a bit of tweaking be made somewhat functional.
There’s a reason that so many team based games (League of Legends, DOTA, Overwatch, etc.) use an elo-derived system and start people’s placements at some arbitrary mid-point on the ladder. It’s simply the best way that we have of sorting people into brackets of equal skill.
You can tweak performance awards, win streak awards and loss streak penalties, etc, but ultimately there are good reasons that you don’t start people at the bottom of the ladder and that you primarily adjust ratings by win rate.
In any case, it’s just not going to happen, there’s not going to be a bottom-start revamp of the ranked system, nor is there going to be an SR reset. Either of those things would simply create worse mismatches than exist under the current system.
Hopefully they will use the data from the beta to make tweaks to how placements are weighted to do a better job on September 1st (as it does really look like placements don’t move people far enough in their off-roles), but those are going to be minor adjustments compared to this sort of talk. Even if they do, I think it will take quite a few games beyond placements for people’s off-roles to get to their proper place.
Yeah because that is more believable than they are not good in a specific role.
“everytime I lose it’s because I wasn’t trying”
People’s opinions and manners, are irrelevant of actually measuring skill.
Oh I have already conceded it will never happen, because Blizzard is lazy.
Reflection? I went from 2.5 to 2k for no reason…
I consider myself better on tank but the game decided that i play tank the same as i play dps and support…this make no sense…i hoped 222 would fix placement a little bit
Honestly being placed lower is better than falsely being assigned a higher number on a role you don’t play. Because the current system does not drop bad players fast enough, it allows them to float in ranges.
If you are lower and should be higher, you will climb easily by playing more games.
If you are higher and should be lower, you can just stop playing when you are dropping and retain rank for next season.
Well this game is dead anyways so why not have fun with it and reset the SR? Its not like the matches we have now are super Competitive, in fact its stil stomp or get stomped 90 % of the time.
If you’re going to throw a turd, it might as well be a big turd.
To be fair the 2/2/2 role lock seems to be making games that are closer, and with less leavers but that is my experience only, I am not sure what others are seeing, but from what I read it seems to be similar.
I’m all for SR reset because I know my skill level and I will get back to it.
I don’t know if a lot of people remember season 2 but it would be like season 2.
Season 2 was very bad with insane variations in game quality. Basically everyone was in plat, including people that the very next season would end up in high masters/low GM. The game was a mess because it became too hard to climb past a certain point because you could have people that truly belonged in silver or gold who got lucky during placements, and basically just sat in plat, vs people that got unlucky in placements, who should have been in diamond/masters, and it was a mess