Hard Counters Shouldn't Exist

First, it’s important to understand a distinction:

A soft counter is where one character/side has a strategic advantage over the enemy character/side because of what they pick (I.E. picking winston/ball into widow). These are fine, in my opinion.

A hard counter is where one character makes another character so ineffective that they are essentially forced to switch off (I.E. Sombra into Ball or doomfist).

As a note, I don’t want to focus on what interactions are or are not hard counters, I want to talk about the concept as a whole and whether this is healthy behavior for the game.

Here’s the issues with hard countering.

-First off, there are heroes that aren’t able to be countered, period. They can be outplayed, but not hard-countered. This is people like Zarya, Ana, or Ashe. Their kits are too general-use to be countered, but they still counter other people.

This is, bluntly put, unfair. If we wanted to balance around the presence of hard-counters, these characters would NEED to be weaker or else it would be silly for them to be able to completely avoid getting countered. But that also brings a huge slew of problems.

-Second, the issue of “must-picks” rather than “should picks”. Countering inherently creates a must-pick scenario in many cases, especially at higher ranks. This is particularly bad when you’ve got a counter pick to a dominant strategy. Brig, for example, was created as a counter pick to dive DPS (like tracer). So let’s say she’s “the” tracer counter. If the enemy DPS has a good tracer, then you pretty much MUST pick brig because that’s how you deal with tracer.

If this is a hard counter, now Tracer has to swap off because hard counter = this character is now invalid. So let’s say the DPS swaps onto Widow. Well now we need someone to dive the widow, so the tanks have to switch to dive to deal with it, so the DPS now has to switch off of widow and onto something that kills dive, and then the tanks have to switch…

It’s not as bad as all that because most of those interactions were “soft”. But does that sound “fun”? Switching constantly because if you don’t, your hero pick becomes invalid because of their hero pick?

It’s not “strategy” at that point, it’s just pure “XXXX is a problem, so I’ll pick a hero that makes it so XXXX cannot play their hero”.

-Third, this mentality polarizes matches.
The matches bit is a pretty obvious thing. If you’ve got a player who is being hard countered and they refuse to switch, the game is going to be far worse than if it was just a soft-counter. Even without that, though, in the smaller tank/support queue, if you have 2-3 characters being hard-countered, that leaves you with 3-4 options. It’s unlikely that players are good at every single hero in their queue, so the hard-counter interactions have a sort of randomizing effect where you do well only because people aren’t countering the picks you’re actually good at, and if you do poorly, it’s because you’re backed into a corner and forced to play someone you’re not good at.

Equally, some characters’ primary strength could also lie in the fact that they hard-counter certain things. So maybe you pop off 2 games in a row and think you’re a great player, but the real issue was that you were lucky enough to have your main hard counter the other team. Then the next two games you do poorly, not because you were countered, but because you weren’t countering something on the enemy team.

I think that’s enough to get started on, though I could keep going on issues with this promoting toxicity, creating stagnant metas, making certain characters too feast-or-famine, etc. At the end of the day, hard countering is not a good thing.

Note: This is in no way, shape, or form, an advocacy for being a OTP. People should play things that work well with their team and work well against the enemy team. Completely invalidating picks, on the other hand, is a problem.

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But… but… rock, paper, scissors is so much fun, right?

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And they dont.
Even when a hero is “hard countered”, like Sombra vs Ball/Doomfist (pretty much the only example really), OW is a 6v6 so theres room to play “around” your counters.

The problem comes when theres a comp that renders half the cast useless, example GOATS vs DPS. THAT was a problem and even so, it wasnt as prevalent as people made it to be.

Not an issue in reality.
Hard counters are not so prevalent or so “hard” as some people make it seem to be.

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I’ve seen a lot of people talk in context of that, and I actually think that analogy is very flawed for this comparison. This is a version of rock paper scissors where you can change your move as soon as you see what the enemy does.

“Oh, you picked paper, huh. Guess I’ll change over to scissors”

“Oh, you changed over to scissors? Rock time!”

“Oh, you went rock? Well, joke’s on you, now I’m doing paper!”

Yeah, that’s not fun.

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Yeah, that’s what I was referring to. It’s rock, paper, scissors where if someone picks rock you pick paper, but then they pick scissors, and so you pick rock and so on and so forth.

I agree with the concept, but the implementation is difficult.

For example, how to you change Sombra to only soft counter ability-dependent tanks like Winston and Hammond? That would require at least a mini-rework to Hack while tweaking Sombra’s other values, if not a full rework to Sombra as a character.

Multiply that across all the other hard counters in the game, and this change in game philosophy requires a truckload of designing, coding, and testing, and they simply won’t have that kind of manpower available until OW2 is out.

Great news !!!
Overwatch is a team based game which eliminates the possibility of hard counters.

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But then again, you lose Ult charge, probably positioning etc.
This is a BASIC core principle of Overwatch mate. If you didnt like the whole “switch to counter” mechanic depending on the enemy comp, side you are playing (attack/defense) or even the map point/advantage … sorry but you picked the wrong game.

If you want a game where all heroes are equal, viable and have synergies and they are balanced to battles/raids etc, thats an MMO or a MOBA. Thats a different thing.

:man_shrugging:

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Sounds to me like one side is adapting while the other is complaining about being unable to keep up. Sucks for the less versatile one I guess

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So what, Sombra doesn’t hard counter Ball then? Does that mean that Junkrat and Pharah is an even match up as well?

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You can play Ball into Sombra, just like you would play against Hog. Play corners.

I think that’s a very productive line of reasoning, for which I have two responses:

  1. Blizzard needs to not create heroes/mechanics specifically to “counter” something else that already exists. Brig was (and they’ve said this several times) created to counter dive, and it was the biggest nosedive in the game’s history. When double shields were a thing, people kept saying a few things like “Let’s just make a hero that kills shield tanks” and with Anti-nade being a thing that people talk about, a lot of the conversation has been “We just need more heroes that can cleanse”. This mentality is what we need to fight against.

  2. Start with the outliers and tone it back from there. Sombra is a clear outlier, but so are some of the other non-traditional characters like Mei, Fist, and Brig (Although Mei and Brig have been gimped badly enough that they’re not countering much of anything nowadays). Carefully working on their kit attributes doesn’t take that much effort, and people want it anyway because hard-counter characters tend to find themselves in the dumpster. This is because if Sombra counters Genji, than having her be popular means that Genji players will get mad and leave, so raw numbers says it’s better to nerf her to death than have her exist in most games. I think most players would prefer having their character viable to having them be in the dumpster because of their countering.

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If sombra is so good at hard countering ball why is ball the best performing tank atm and Sombra is one of the worst dps as usual. Almost like she doesn’t shut him down as easily and without counterplay like you all insist.

Trust me doom hard counters Sombra th is is why doom needs to be deleted from outterspafe of game rn

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Playing corners is the least “Ball” thing there is.

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as this is a 6v6 team game and not a 1v1 game there are no hard counters, if one gets out of position the other can easily threaten them but it’s not a hard counter.

Sombra doesn’t do well on ladder, also, Hog is the most picked tank atm.

If Sombra cant hack you she’s not going to look for you all day. Same goes for Hog.

Sombra needs buff yes Sombra should have instant hack cast and no cool down yes

You say that…