Hanzo’s primary has both horrendous damage break-points as well as one of the longest TTK’s in the game.
It’s current DPS is below 100, making it worse than a Mercy pistol.
The fact that Widow’s secondary out DPS Hanzo’s primary is just an insult.
The DPS of a weapon is not everything, if your damage breakpoints are good, 1-shotting, 2-shotting, 3-shotting etc, it makes up for the lack of DPS.
The problem is, Hanzo also has the worst possible break points in the game, there is basically no way for him not to massively overkill any target he hits.
For example, if Hanzo does land a headshot, dealing 240 damage. He is then expected to somehow finish off that target. The problem Hanzo has, is that he has no efficient way of doing so.
An uncharged arrow is literally the slowest projectile in the game. My gran could outspeed them. You are not going to consistently hit anything with them, so that 10 damage might as well be 1000. you are not killing them unless you charge that arrow.
The obvious alternative is Hanzo’s Storm arrow, an ability that you cannot always rely to be off CD.
If Hanzo is going to stay like this, without 1-shotting, his primary needs some serious love.
Yes, you are right. Sniper DPS is basically irrelevant because they can 1-shot. Hanzo is no longer a sniper though and should be treated like any other DPS.
Exactly, the devs need to somehow make Hanzo’s uncharged arrows more consistent. He also should receive a charge speed buff.
I don’t get why you think him dealing 240 damage on a headshot is relevant, as long as it doesn’t 1-shot Hanzo’s DPS should be compared to the likes of Soldier, McCree, Ashe etc, all in which completely destroy him in terms of TTK atm.
The only thing keeping him afloat is the aburdity of Storm arrows and the asinine decision to buff it.
Yes, but you compared apples to oranges.
If you compare it to Widowmaker’s sniper mode, you will find Hanzo’s DPS to be higher. So this information is somewhat irrelevant.
You could compare Widowmaker’s SMG to Hanzo’s Storm Arrows, for example, which happens to be the highest damage per second in the game at 270 DPS for body shots and 540 DPS for headshots.
It’s relevant because the game is not a 1v1 deathmatch. It’s not that every target you shoot at is a full 250 HP target. Chip damage is something real in this game.
Also, it’s relevant because it has no fall-off damage and because it’s a “shoot in a general direction and pray” kind of projectile in some situations.
It’s relevant because Hanzo is more versatile than a sniper like Widow. Each kit has its trade-offs.
Why would I compare it to a primary that can 1-shot? That seems non-sensical.
That is an even more silly comparison as you are comparing an ability to secondary.
I guess there are better primaries to compare it to. Torbjorn for example, both heroes have drop. Both are projectiles. Although even in this comparison, Torbjorn’s primary has 40% higher DPS than Hanzo’s primary or 25% higher including reload.
You know you could make the same argument for literally every hero in the game. 240 is still a meaningless number as long as it doesn’t 1-shot. In Overwatch the 2 big factors are time to kill and DPS.
Hanzo is bad a both outside of using Storm arrows. There is another hero suffering from this, which is Sojourn. She also lost the ability to 1-shot and it now underperforming. Unlike Hanzo though, she does not have Storm arrows as a crutch.
Hanzo requires a certain skill level to be good. Anything below that skill is going to ask for buffs to make up for their lack of aim,any buffs break him with good players
A “substantial” as you put it, buff to his primary isn’t the answer
It’s like saying Bastion is weak outside his turret form. Well, no kidding!
You can’t just remove an essential ability from his kit at your will, just to portray him as a poor, useless hero.
The reality is, Storm Arrows is a broken ability, with a relatively low cooldown. This hero has a potential 540 damage per second that ricochets and has no falloff on an 8-second cooldown.
I hard disagree. Him losing his 1-shot shows this.
Hanzo can get plenty of value just being Spamzo. It is not skillful, it doesn’t feel good but it is effective.
I hate to say this, as a Hanzo main. While I used to think the same as you, that the only way to be a good hanzo was actually having decent aim, landing the headshots etc, it is not true.
The forums have always complained about Spamzo, us hanzo mains would defend him saying it wasn’t a viable playstyle. We were blatantly wrong.
I would agree with you, even Bastion’s primary outside of turret form was bad.
It is not, it is actually REALLY good. Nearly as good as Soldier’s rifle.
That is an odd statement but ok. A generalization stating Hanzo mains thought that spamzo wasn’t a viable strategy is equating to “speak on behald of others” while true is very non-productive and I would still say it is a valid statement in the same way I could say us brits like tea.
Even storm bow isn’t fast enough to kill people a lot of the time after you dink them in the head.
Say I’m on Collosseo.
I’m Hanzo and there’s an enemy Ashe far away on the other side. I hit her in the head, awesome, I managed to account for the arrow drop and hit her.
She just dips behind cover for 1 second, gets healed by Moira, and then comes back out again to take shots at me.
I hit her in the head again.
She dips behind cover for 1 second, gets healed by Mercy, and then comes back out again to take shots at me.
There’s literally no way for me to kill her from that range unless she gets greedy and pops out before she’s full healed. If I activate storm bow and spam it, by the time the arrows reach where she was, she’s already behind cover.
Then there’s Widow, who from that range has a MUCH MUCH easier time hitting people in the head because she’s hitscan and doesn’t have to account for projectile drop.
And she gets to instakill.
Maybe he could get a reverse damage falloff buff, where the longer his arrow is in the air, the more damage it does. That way he can successfully kill people from ranges where he has no actual way to finish them off.
Not too much, just enough to instakill supports and dps on headshot.
I get the point you are trying to make. However, It is more about informed opinions against uninformed opinions.
Everyone can have there own opinion and no opinion is right or wrong unless they make objective statements that are inaccurate/untrue.
If i say Hanzo has one of the longest TTK’s in the DPS role. That is not an opinion, that is a factual statement. As it is something we can fact check.
Stating that 240 damage is meaningless is an opinion. As it is a purely subjective viewpoint.
Regarding collective opinions, while it has very little backing. I do think it is important to have a consensus. One bronze players point of view is near worthless. However, 100 bronze players having the same view, there might actually be something to there opinion.
In this same vain, I do think i can somewhat speak for most if not the vast majority of Hanzo players in saying that his current balance/design feels absolutely awful, with the main reason for this being his primary. Once again though, it is a statement with very little backing and I can understand why you would dislike statements like this.