Depending on circumstances, mass rez could be made useless, if players died in graviton combo: almost any ult(even tracer’s bomb) would re-wipe them again.
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This. This couldve been a cool change to mass rez wherein rezzed teammates would respawn where mercy is standing allowing more counterplay and what not
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Mercy still is a simple hero to play, the rework didn’t change that. The only rework that made a simple hero a bit harder to play was Symm because they removed the lock on. Dva, Winston, Rein, Soldier, Brigitte and Moira are unchanged in terms of easiness.
Plus the fun thing you cannot just say as a fact. Fun is always subjective, while you had fun with mass-rez, I only felt stress and anxiety with it.
That might be true, but those people also didn’t mind it gone. Mass-rez was abused by a lot of players and I understand the frustration non-Mercy players felt.
Saying “no one cared until the invul.” is quite an understatement. I know a lot of people who hated Mercys ult since beta. I know a lot of people who say mass-rez has no place in a hero shooter and MOBA and no other game of that type has something similar like mass-rez.
while scatter was per-se not unbalanced, many people abused it’s mechanics to play cheap like many people did with Mercy. Scatter got removed because people didn’t use it as intended, to finish low HP enemies behind corners. Hanzos shot at the feet to get a cheap kill. They coul’ve tweaked it in a lot of ways too, like making it deal damage only after it has bounced off somewhere, doesn’t apply to feet hitboxes etc.
Maybe they tried balancing it. Maybe they tried all the suggestions that were written here and their data showed that Mercy was underperforming, died too often etc.
Mass-rez had also not a lot of counterplay when you were plaing a mediocre DPS/Tank. Did I kill a Mercy who flew in for a rez a couple of times? Yes, but out of pure luck.
Just see how many times you get away with the aweful slow rez nowadays while literally standing infront of someone. They seldom manage to kill you in time, miss shots, or simply don’t notice you. That’s the average player for you. So how on earth should these people be able to counter something like a mass-rez, even with slow, casttime etc, if you now already get away with the most stupid and suicidal rezzes? Jeff posted a while back that the median is at 2300SR, these people just lack basic teamwork and gamesense to focus and kill Mercy reliably. Plus let’s not forget our console friends where Mercy still remains now the strongest healer, because it’s so darn hard to aim with a controller and kill Mercy with her fast movement and small hitbox.
It hit a few days ago, which means they were working on it since Symms rework. Reworks take time, balancing takes time. They do a lot of internal testing before anything hits PTR. Programming is hard and takes time.
Mercy having a negative winrate is a problem that hasn’t been here for 12 months, only since the latest support changes. That also only on PC, not console…
If the stats on overbuff are the same than their stats, she will get a buff or a rework.
Yeah the devs choices of where to respond is a bit iffy, you’re right on that point. Bastion being blatantly ignored is just insane.
But I also understand them not making any statements towards Mercy. Like Jeff said in his recent dev update: " We can’t just go somewhere and say something. People will take those words very seriously and if we don’t deliver or make changes, we are getting a lot of harsh feedback and hate". So understandably they don’t say A when they after a while end up deciding B.
thats where it comes from, and i hope you didnt feel actual stress/anxiety jc
it’s evident that mercy players who’ve played both iterations, the majority feel mass res was more rewarding/fun/impactful whilst also being less overpowered that release valk.
if you mean the SR exploit it was removed
i managed to convince a few of my friends that it’s on par with impact with a lot of other ults (pre invuln) its never going to be fun to have your play erased, but its about ult economy and hero prioritisation.
intended deign ould’ve been achieved with ressurect, add LoS so hiding wasnt as effective, and tempo ressing wouldve (even more than it already was) the dominant way to play mercy effictively.
well, the way mass res is always descrbed, after a fight you’ve kileld everyone else, she flies in, THE ONLY TARGET and you dont kill her, that’s on you, you had that second to stun, boop, or kill her but you didnt.
I actually did, so did my friends, 2 of which are Mercy mains. Maybe it comes with our age (we’re late 20s, early 30s) and having stress at work, managing a household and finances is already pressuring enough, so when I want to relax, I don’t want to feel pressured. Which I always did as Mercy, it surely comes from people actually being fing toxic towards old Mercy and putting pressure on Mercy players to not die with rez (that’s where the hiding mentality comes from) and to pull an epic rez off. I never felt that stress/anxiety when I played any other hero. Not Zen, not Ana, not Lucio, not Rein, not Dva. I always felt like it was no biggie when you shattered into the enemy shield, when you tranced to save the tanks (instead waiting for blade), when you accidentially nanoe’d Lucio (BOSTIOOO) and killed nobody with HighNoon (was a miracle when you did). But it was always flame city when you died with rez as Mercy, even if you got solo ulted or spawntrapped. And since she got reworked, I don’t receive a fraction of the abuse I did before. Sure the occasional “0 heals, our Mercy sucks” or the “I need healing” spam after they die, but you always get those people. Now I always get a “thank you” when I rez someone. I don’t feel pressured into rezzing someone either, I don’t feel the pressure to hide away and wait until the ultspam is over.
That’s why I hated it, that’s why my friends hated it.
But where do you take the numbers from? From this forum? It’s evident that this forum is crawling with Mercy mains, always the same making the same topics and always the same 200 upvoting them. The ones who are happy with her don’t come here to debate over her (except a few), they just play the game and enjoy it.
It’s called an echo chamber, where the same few people say the same thing over and over again, upvote eachothers posts and reconfirm their viewpoint. In a forum where there are a lot of them, and the ones not being them not even clicking on the topic and going into the discussion. The forum represents a very, very small portion of the playerbase.
Nope, I am pretty sure if they woul’ve removed it while mass-rez was there, it would’ve not stopped the fact that Mercy players would have gone hiding. I was told constantly to go hide while I played Mercy, even if I didn’t want to. If I didn’t and I’d die, I’d get flamed. If I only got a 1-2 man rez off, I’d get flamed by my teammates. The whole hide mentality didn’t necesseraly originate with Mercy players, rather the majority of players (below diamond) realized that if your Mercy hides in Overtime, your chances of winning increase, as she can swoop in and “reset” by a simple button press.
If it wouldn’t be so effective, how come I managed to climb to the top 10% of the playerbase while hiding? That was before she got the invul. buff btw, before the SR exploit was there, where you actually got less SR when playing Mercy compared to playing Ana.
Like I said before, gamesense is nearly 0 present in ranks below plat (remider: 2300 is the median, 50% of the playerbase is below), only a little present in plat (30% of playerbase). Constant C9, overulting, no target priority, 4DPS, PoTG chasing, Overextending, 2v6ing is normal there. Plus add an average of only 30% accuracy to the pool and 0 CD management and you have the perfect coctail of “not being able to hit or anticipate Mercy rez”. I know I can’t snipe her flying in for a rez (old Mercy), I might have used my flashbang to stop the ulting Genji before, I have to reload right now etc. are all things that can happen too.
I played from ranks silver- high masters. I’ve seen it all. I played on a second DPS account with friends when old Mercy was still a thing. Even with them making me the shot caller (because I was mid diamond on my main acc) and me constantly calling the Mercy, it was usually me who had to spawncamp her in order to hinder her from rezzing. Because in the heat of the moment, my average ranked friends were not able to stop her. Which I honestly understand, it was not easy chasing her, killing her, especially when she got backup from her team.
I agree with this post, yet I still understand why they make no statement towards her. They originally said they are going to revert her when the changes turn out bad. And the people here take it like it was a sentence delivered by god himself, making it a necessity to revert her now, because they feel like the rework was unsuccessful. Eventhough they have posted a thread some while ago that they do not want to revert her and want to further balance her in this direction they chose.
they’re just making it harder on themselves, the OP was a discussion about the counters now present for mass res.
i’d like ANYTHING other than what we have now, there was a reason Valkyrie was scapped in alpha. it shouldn’t be in the game, not now not ever. but it is, and it’s not cute.
for the most part, mercy plays fine, sure, no ones going to live on 50hp/s unless they’re behind cover, and turning into a rock every 30 seconds isnt a good game design, but it’s better than having no mercy at all, it’s still fun to fly around the place, it’s still fun to whip out that pistol, but that’s about it.
she’s still playable, statistically. but she feels clunky and disjointed in her current state.
i’d love to see them make sense of valkyrie, maybe lower the duration and up its stats? Maybe tie it back with res? give res a resource metre filled by healing? anything at all to spice it up, because right now, her skill floor and skill cieling are so close together, there is no point investing time into learning her, as knowledge of her kit nets you no real, tangiable results. like it used to.
i dont hate valkyrie, i dont think it fits the character, and i think theyve stripped what made it enjoyable on release with 0 compensation, and kept the ridiculous charge rate (higher than graviton, a very impactful ultimate).
let me re-iterate, i’d love to see what they can do with valk, right now its just nerf after nerf and they’ve gutted who she was. she feels bad to play while doing her most vital tasks. and i dont think its fair that shes been this way for so long.
I agree with you. There are 100 different ways to make Valkyrie feel better. Personally I’d like to have chain beams removed but a 90hps beam for the duration.
But that’s where we need to put idea towards the devs. The problem is, almost every Mercy thread is about her needing a revert, how everything was better when she had mass-rez and people cussing the devs out. The good threads with improvements to Valk get lost in the mass of revert threads. On 1 suggestive Valkyrie improvement thread come 99 revert thread. And even if you make good suggestions towards improving Valk, you ALWAYS get the same answer: “revert would be better”. It’s tedious for me, it’s most certainly tedious for the devs and mods.
I’m actually pretty sure they will look at Mercy again, after they’ve done looking after their other problem children (Hog, Sombra, Bastion). I’m also pretty sure they will give her a significant buff to her ult to make that feel like it has more impact.
Mercy should not be able to outheal damage coming from 2 or more sources, no healer can. Moira for a while, but as soon as she gets low on resource, teammates die anyways. Plus she has a lot of other drawbacks which hinder her to be a good consistent healer. Ana has to hit shots and reload, so she is usually also not able to outheal a damagesource of 2 or more. I personally thing 55hps would be the perfect middle ground, I anyways see this coming as the next change made to Mercy.
It has always been like this. I know Mercy player feel like old rez took more skill to get off, but in reality this 1:1 applies to rez on CD. I guess everyone has their own opinion about this, but I stopped playing Mercy 1.0 before her rework because I felt like I hit a very low ceiling very early (50hrs) and didn’t see any improvements specific to her (improving in gamesense benefits playing all heroes, not only Mercy). It wasn’t that hard to figure out when to rez or not. Same as it is now, tbh.I think Mercys skill ceiling improved a tiny bit because of the bunny hop with GA and now managing a lower healing output (damn it feels great to keep a 3 tank comp with a Zen as 2nd healer up!).
How about…
No. Mass res was more toxic than Brig
I hope they never bring it back and make sure to tell everyone they never will.
i’d rather that than radio fcking silence.
im sure you’re some form of dps main that thinks its op cos u couldnt kill mercy ay.
there’s no way mass res was really more OP than brig, esecially considering brigs winrate has peaked higher than mercies ever has as well. you fail to realise mercy was a trllpick for 3 seasons (back when seasons were longer than 2 seconds)
Mercy will not get a revert and she will not get mass rez back. The developers have already stated this multiple times.
With that being sad, I would love to have mass rez back, but with a few changes.
I used to think that too… Until I made an account and started playing DPS… I only really saw what it was like on the other side after I joined them. I wasn’t that bad either, constantly high plat.
Game was new, everyone had to figure out how to play this game. Plus Ana was so horrendously OP, there were not many Mercys in the matches. As soon as Ana became trash and people shifted to Mercy, many people realized how problematic mass rez was.
Same as now people start to realize how problematic Doomfist is with him being decently played now. Same with Widow as people started to get good with her, she was always a trollpick who was pushed down by Dive, once Dive was gone, Widow roams and everyone realized she’s too good, hence the grapple nerf.
Neither of them are terribly great counters to a mass rez. Hammond’s ult is too small even when he’s scraping the map ceiling, and Torbjorn would have to fire a globule under every dead body in a 6 second period.
Arguably the strongest ult counter is a D.Va bomb, but that requires pretty godlike precision to time it so that they can’t just raise a barrier. Deadeye is a bit easier to use, but it’s basically impossible to kill the barrier characters with it unless someone on your team can stun them.
Nonetheless, all of this is pretty clearly wishful thinking. Area denial ults existed before Mercy’s rework, and there are going to be more after her rework.
Actually I am a tank player that was feed up with how easy mercy was to play and how her easy playstyle and complete lack of any mechanical skill boosted players into high ranks. Brig took positioning and cool down management to heal and save key allies. Is Brig op, maybe but that is hardly the point.
Mass res made the game horrible to play for everyone but the Mercy.
It’s false hope.
For everyone but opposite team. No one complained, if ally Mercy resurrected everyone, but “hide & rez” screams were very loud for Mercy from opposite team.
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You could actually move about 0.5m before the invulnerability wore off.
It was made so snipers couldn’t get an easy one-shot afterwards but nothing dramatic so it’d still be a fixed location.
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I would try giving her rez refresh on ultimate back now that they’ve nerfed her healing at least. Getting an extra rez off made it at least feel like an ultimate.
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