well. you’re more than welcome to consider junkrat a skillbased hero. I have to disagree based on my understanding of the character and the 30~40 hours i spent playing him.
ok. I have 72 hours and I don’t hide my profile so it’s verifiable if anyone wants to look. Spamming is going to have very large diminishing returns as you go higher in rank. I notice this even at gold, which is also verifiable because my profile isn’t hidden.
No. Weaker heroes aren’t harder heroes. That’s something that people can’t seem to differentiate, but they’re two individual things.
The result is the same - when your hero is weaker you have to be better than your opponent to win. Which in turn makes the hero harder.
The problem is that at higher ranks there is not much room to be better than your opponent - the stronger hero will always win in this case. That is bad game design.
My attitude is hoping the game to turn into a mode where you get results if you practice enough with a difficult to utilize hero and become good at it. And not be hard countered by a braindead support that took me 5 minutes to get the hang of everything there is in her kit.
There is no support character in the game that can do that. At this point Mercy is a wreck, Brigitte is trash, Moira is barely played because she has zero utility and low damage.
None of these counters any dps hero.
That leaves us with Ana, Lucio and Zen - so which one do you mean?
As for DPS heroes - have you actually played any of those you despise?
None of them are as easy as you make it sound.
but most people here want Easier heroes to be viable and strong all the time, because they just don’t have to spend any effort whatsoever to master them. They can pick them anytime and contribute more than any other dps or tank or healer, with them. They want everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. That’s what i’m having problems with.
People want all heroes to be viable and strong all the time. Because that is good game design. Because that is fun.
How many Symmetras, Meis, Torbs and Junkrats do you see in GM? Pretty much none. And I wouldn’t consider even one of them easy heroes.
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Especially when they remove some “unintended” mechanics that spice up gameplay, like Brig’s whip dash. That was fun to use in Total Mayhem but then they took it out! Pretty lame.
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I guess you didn’t notice the complete and utter annihilation of tracer after the introduction of brigitte to the game. just because now she’s less of a threat doesn’t mean 6 months ago didn’t happen.
As for mercy being a wreck? No she isn’t. If you want a hero to blame for her current useless state, blame brigitte for bringing goats meta into the game. Goats meta obliterated any and all metas that had any sort of viable dps heroes in it. And without dps heroes, mercy just doesn’t have any spot in the game. She works with consistent or long range dps heroes. she doesn’t work well with tank line ups and right now, all we have is tanks and more tanks. So it’s actually brig who ruined your character. Not ana, or any other thing.
Moira is a weak design. She was made for the sole purpose of multi healing but she doesn’t provide any utility whatsoever. and her one and only utility is easily erased by DM. She’ll never be the most viable.
Other than symmetra who i barely play and torb which i played a bit more but still hate playing, and bastion because he’s just not good with a lot of comps, I played all of them. quite a lot in fact. And junrkat mostly gets his value from spamming chokepoints and gathering riptire and using it, and then repeating the whole thing. You now have 2 mines, so you have a free get out of jail ticket card every time. and one competent healer on your team means basically you’re free to outlive a lot of things. There is no difficult mechanics. It’s mostly luck based and a slight projectile prediction which even then, is mostly luck based. while the majority of your damage comes from choke point spamming.
first of all, that will never happen. If all heroes are equally viable, then only the easiest to play will be the most optimal choice. so they won’t become equally viable.
The realistic balancing will make some heroes more viable than others, regardless of how much you try to balance the game or how much you change this and that or add a hero or remove one. There is no perfect balancing. There are thousands of different small things that change how heroes interact with one another. They affect each other’s viability, they counter one another, and they work with each other in other cases. You can’t make all heroes equally viable.
With this understanding and knowing the fact that perfect balancing is impossible, the preferred optimal situation which is as close to a balanced state as it can be, is for easy mechanic heroes to be viable in niche situation and harder to master heroes to be viable for more situations, with none of them dominating the meta and becoming the one and only optimal choice for every scenario.
It seems to me as you are deliberately not answering to my points in a meaningful way.
As for mercy being a wreck? No she isn’t. If you want a hero to blame for her current useless state, blame brigitte for bringing goats meta into the game. Goats meta obliterated any and all metas that had any sort of viable dps heroes in it.
(…) So it’s actually brig who ruined your character
I never complained about “my Mercy” was wrecked since I actually don’t play her at all. Thats just strawman at this point.
I asked you which support character hardcounters dps after five minutes of learning. And when you complain about a state a character is no longer in I might aswell start complaining about beta Bastion with his front shield.
And I am pretty sure it was not Brigitte, but the stupid rework and chain nerfs that wrecked Mercy.
And junrkat mostly gets his value from spamming chokepoints and gathering riptire and using it, and then repeating the whole thing.
Your rank might put things into perspective because that is simply only true up until a certain rank.
You now have 2 mines, so you have a free get out of jail ticket card every time.
Looking at how much aircontrol Junkrat has that is simply not true. There is a good chance you’ll be blasted out of the sky because of your huge hitbox and slow, predictable movement.
Of course it can save you from a swinging Rein though.
and one competent healer on your team means basically you’re free to outlive a lot of things.
That is true for any hero in the entire game and therefore pretty much a void argument.
first of all, that will never happen.
Might as well not even try to balance the game then, right?
I’m calling it a day here since there is no meaningful conversation to be had since you don’t want heroes you don’t like to be viable at all.
See? I can strawman aswell.
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doomfist coukd be quite strong against goats at most levels of play on particiar maps due to his ability to dive back lines and harass supports.
His CC changes mean he can no longer utilize his kit as effectively (slam is straight up bad to use in many situations because of the randomness to the effect of it now. It might pull them to you. It might send them into the air up up and away from you)-
And his range reduction to slam has lost him many specific roll out locations that were necessary to get back there in the first place.
Doomfist was being picked, quite successfully, basically every other game.
Now hes picked basically never.
All that would happen is either Goats goes nowhere in the pro meta cause people are good enough to deal with Junk.
Or he becomes the new OP hero, Goats dies, Junk becomes annoying and oppresive and he gets nerfed then Goats is back.
Actually, with all that spam it means he gets his ult faster. And then they will spread out to lessen the blow from a rip-tire. THEN you can pick one or two stragglers who hid in the wrong place. Simple.
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We need Junkrat, Pharah AND Doomfist back for goats to be countered properly, each of those heroes have their counters (about the same kind of counters actually) so no, they wont dominate.
Could also count Brigitte, since she is trash outside of Goats, but idk what can be done about her to make her viable outside of goats without increasing that comp effectiveness like crazy
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I don’t see how going from Goatswatch to DPSwatch is a good idea. These heroes would never be dominant outside of maybe Pharah is she got a Hanzo or Mercy level of OP rework. These heroes just are not that good in a pro context. The game is getting way too much powercreep already it doesn’t need more.
dps wouldnt happen
Like i said those heroes have more than enough counters to deal with them, especially after the inclusion of Ashe which counters all 3 of them
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Then these heroes wouldn’t be played. The only way for those heroes to stop Goats is they all become the 3 best heroes in the game. Then people wouldn’t counter them they would just mirror them.
You already countered Goats by forcing the comp to switch
If you made them the strongest heroes in the game you wouldn’t be countering Goats you would just be changing the meta.
When did i said they would be the strongest? Junkrat was fine before they nerfed his weapon
Pharah needs separate balance for console and PC that makes her viable
And Doomfist at most only needed the Uppercut nerf (And a Ult rework)
And there also other heroes that need help, Torbjorn and Sym for example
And droves of people would uninstall just as quickly. Especially those on console
Those heroes would need to be the strongest heroes in the game for them to even come close to countering Goats.
Thats why Pharah needs separate balance
Why? Junkrat countered Tank comps very well in the past
Pharah is a special case due to how much is the difference between PC and Console
And Doomfist could deal with Goats really well, and dont come with the BS “he was OP” no, he wasnt, he did his job, he countered a comp build around heroes he counters, and on another side, most of his counters werent viable, such has Roadhog, thats why he appeared strong, plus nearly all the other dps werent capable of dealing with Goats, either because they got countered by it or were UP