šŸ [GOATs] Is easy to fix

General Discussion
1

Easy fix:

  1. Remove Shieldbash Stun, and put itā€™s damage back at 50.
  2. Brig can also activate a 4sec duration version of Inspire by using ArmorPack, in addition to the 6sec version for hitting stuff.

All the sudden Dive is stronger.

Hammond treats GOATs comps like they are bowling pins. (Scattering the GOATs comp, and making it easier to kill a stranded healer).

And as a bonus,
Brig is better at healing in 2-2-2 comps.

Why the Stun removal?
Because killing GOATs comps at longer ranges is never going to be practical.
So that means getting into close range to kill a GOATs comp.

Main reason thatā€™s difficult is that there is a Stun+FocusFire waiting nearly every time one would attempt a push into close range.

So take the stun out, and all of the sudden, GOATs is a lot more vulnerable at close range.
(Which is the only way GOATs will ever be pushed out of the meta, without nerfing itā€™s heroes into the ground).

2

it feels naive that you think Goats would be fixed by changing shield bash.

I believe the whole benefit of running goats (Rein, Zarya, Brig, Lucio, D.va, Zen) is that you have:
a 2k shield rectangle
2x projected barriers to save ppl from damage
Armor pack to save people
AoE Healing x 2
2s of Deleted projectiles/ultimates
Discord Orb.

and it becomes very hard to kill anyone because they just walk to the objective as a group and donā€™t dieā€¦

A shield bash nerf would help, but doesnā€™t change the fact that this comp would take a lot of consistent damage to break down. e.g.Bastion being uncontested on high ground raining all fury down. or a Sombra to EMP away all their utility.

2 Likes
3

Thatā€™s the trick, it takes consistent damage at long range.

But letā€™s say you have a Hammond knock them around, then have a Winston/Dva land onto a Healer that got separated from their team.

GG now itā€™s 5v6.

And unlike an EMP, you donā€™t need an Ultimate to pull that off.
You could just keep doing that every 6 seconds until something dies.

4

A new hero with an ability that does more damage the more packed the enemy is.

If thereā€™s only 1 dude in the area of effect, 60 dmg to him.
2 => 100 to both
3=> 150 to all 3
4 => 210 to all 4
5 => 280 to all 5
6 = 360 to all 6

Strong against GOATS without the drawback of being strong against tanks overall and making them useless outside of goats.

1 Like
5

Also the nerfed Bash procs Inspire.

6

Other idea : An ability that does fixed % of max health damage, though that might just make tanks useless overall.

7

Shield bash is not the reason for GOATS. Neither is Brigitte still the sole enabler of it.

5 Likes
8

Goats wonā€™t die until healers and snipers are nerfes or we get 222.

9

Yeah dude this only makes GOATs stronger.

10

Making it so GOATs can get knocked around like bowling pins, without fear of a stun, makes GOATs stronger?

11

Depends on the way you look at it.

The way I look at it, GOATs is basically QuadTank, but without the close range weakness.

Shredding GOATs at long range isnā€™t practical, unless you foresee the dominant meta at GM/Pro becoming Symmetra+Bastion.

So close range is the only other option.

12

Both of these changes would just make goats strongerā€¦ lmao. Shield bash is literally not the reason why the comp is so strong.

13

This exists to help deal with Dive. Removing the stun just reverses the current problem of one comp being meta back to Dive, if it does anything at all.

14

Well, GOATs would still be strong with that aura healing.

And I figure Dive is preferable to GOATs.

Because GOATs is boring.

Also tons of people would be happy that they canā€™t get instantly hit by one of the longer stuns in the game, by a hero thatā€™s really hard to kill.

15

Brigitteā€™s stun hasnā€™t been a problem with how strong GOATs is.

It actually was one of the bigger counters to the composition until it got nerfed to 5 damage and no shield penetration.

Doing this change to shield bash does nothing as what makes GOATs so effective is:

  1. AoE heal stacking
  2. Damage mitigation from tank abilities (DM, Bubbles, Barrier)
  3. High damage output from tanks

Removing stun from shield bash doesnā€™t help with any of those core problems, yet the 4sec duration version of Inspire stacking with the 6sec version? That makes the AoE heal stacking with Lucio go from 32hps to 49hps, making them even HARDER to take out because theyā€™ll be receiving more healing almost indefinitely because of the low cooldown of Repair Pack.

2 Likes
16

So you want to make it did the only way to kill GOATs is by using the same strategy that GOATs is using, but with less tanks?

And to require a Tank Ultimate, to even have a chance to pull that off?

17

Noā€¦ I never said that.

I actually never said anything as to how Iā€™d like to see GOATs be countered. All I said was what makes GOATs so strong and how the shield bash/repair pack change you proposed would only make it stronger.

I for one, propose a heal stacking nerf.

18

This right hereā€¦

Donā€™t allow AoE heals to stack.

19

Thatā€™s basically what you are saying, if your argument is to stun GOATs at close range.

Which is exactly what they are doing.

Lemme guess, stun the rein then go for an Earthshatter? Or is it stun the rein, and go for a Dva bomb?

20

No. I literally didnā€™t say anything about how Iā€™d ideally counter GOATs.

All I said was Brigitteā€™s stun was actually effective at countering GOATs prior, does that mean thatā€™s what I want to see? No. Iā€™m literally just stating the power of her stun was actually effective at countering the comp. Forā€¦ basically the reasons you stated. It provided openings for her team.

Would I like to see it come back? No, not really, and Iā€™ll say it again, Iā€™d rather have a heal stacking nerf over anything else.