Three of the top 5 most played Heroes right now are tanks.
Asuming one doesn’t headshot them and tracks their movements.
I guess I’ll be the person…you want to stop goats then you need to address the healing…there’s is too much AOE healing in game with the additions of Moira and brig (on top of lucio)…I know they dish out damage but the bigger issue is that they can literally charge in to a given point/objective relatively carefree knowing they’re not in danger of really dying
Throw on top of that all the recent healing buffs and it was an inevitability
That or we need more antiheal ability in game
Because world cup represents ladder amirite.
People didn’t want dva to be a tank or peeler. =p
She’s the product of the forum whiners entirely. But at least she’s balanced now.
I looked at this a week ago–the stats are almost exactly the same.
People are just kicking around ideas.
Overwatch League Season 2 kicks off in I think January. Some players, myself included, don’t think Blizzard is going to bank the success of their mega-million dollar esport franchise on the popular Goat’s meta we see so much of right now.
Maybe they do? Maybe it’s really popular with fans/teams/pros and people want to watch /ahem/ high level Brigitte play. I mean people talk smack about goats but the world cup showed that it’s not really easy to run goats at a peak level. Clearly some teams are better at it than others.
but if Blizzard decides to scale it back a bit, where do they go? Healing? Tanks? Just Brigitte as she is key to the entire comp? D.va had a near 100% pick rate in World Comp? So is that where the balance team focuses? I have no idea.
Look right now it doesn’t really mater, it’s when OWL S2 kicks in all of this really gets interesting. The fact that the balance team left Mercy in for too long and played an entire cycle with old Hanzo makes me think that maybe they will just take a wait and see approach.
The fix for GOATS is actually making Reaper perform well. The reason GOATS is prevelant now is because a lot of the most reliable tank counters just don’t do anything.
You’re trying to turn the offtanks into main tanks which is a HORRIBLE idea for balancing. Off tanks are necessary to help supports peel. Also Zarya already had the max charge for her bubbles nerfed once, Roadhog’s PTR changes FINALLY make him viable again and you’re asking for changes which will make him worse, and D.Va’s had so many changes and it’s tiresome.
Simply put, these balance changes are horrible. The issue is that despite the number of DPS we have, very few of them are good at taking out tanks. Some of them can DISPLACE tanks, but very few can kill confirm without team support. Buff Reaper and GOATS won’t be a go to strategy anymore.
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Tank aren’t the problem. I could try to tell you what it is but I’d get flagged, berated, and called a filthy genji main
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So pretty much what You are telling me:
Nerf an already bad tank (roadhog).
Give a perfectly balanced hero: dva a nerf to her micro misses and dm.
Give zarya more bubbles at the cost of her damage? (Another unneeded nerf)
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Maybe instead of complaining you use this tank meta to your advantage
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Whatever they change there always be a meta (usually just 1 and incredibly stale)
Even if they do changes mid season, OWL is still going to be played on older game client especially if the changes are significant.
Supports are behind 3-3, just like they are behind every meta.
Tanks need no adjustments, Brigitte does. Even Lucio is low-key extremely game changing, and people vastly underestimate how integral he is to tank comps.
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the format is different in S2 with longer breaks, less games and shorter cycles per each stage if I remember right, so there is more room to add in different patches.
and while there is always a meta, some of them are more interesting to watch than others. Let not kid ourselves as to where all of us average player base rank in the eyes of the balance team vs balance for interesting game play in the OWL.
They already slashed our events to next to nothing, talk of world cup going away to put the money into the OWL allstar game. So I’m thinking Goat vs Goat isn’t going to cut it as far as “interesting for people to watch” for an entire season.
maybe it’s fine? It’s really going to be interesting to see what happens. I think D.va get a balance pass due to the near 100% pick rate and at some point Brigitte is going to get made weak too. Maybe even less health, armor decay or a shorter over all stun time.
but I’m just taking shot in the dark here.
Why don’t we just buff the defensive capabilities of all tanks and nerf their damage.
Like give Reinhardt more health but nerf his damage, but increase how far he pushes people when he hits them.
Sure then they won’t be getting many kills and be less fun to play but it is how they’re meant to be played. They reduce damage and peel for healers while the dos make the big numbers.
Only reason this will never be done is because Blizzard balances their games around fun rather than fairness. But I’ll admit it is a n effective business practice. If tanks actually “tanked” in this game less people would play them, and tanks already have low pickrates overall, namely outside the meta circuit.
If you look at Workd of Warcraft this is a great example. Tanks are the least played role. Blizzard learned from this and decided to bridge the gap a bit to make yanks more interactive than a damage sponge.
So to compensate they slowly made tanks more like dps so people would play them more (Orisa, D.Va reworked)
Then they made support more like dps so people would play them more (Moira, Brigitte).
There’s a reason why DPS heroes are in the center of the hero select screen.
How about absolutely not. That is how you completely ruin hog, by having a nano heal on an 8 second cooldown for all allies while also taking away his offensive capabilities. It would simply ruin the hero by making him essential for most comps and also making him unfun for Hog players to play.
I like the idea of making tanks into actual tanks as oppose to “fat dps” except for Roadhog. Especially because Roadhog isn’t used in GOATS anyway, I don’t see the need to shift his power since he’s always been considered a dps anyway. Also I think the buff to Zarya you suggested would eventually get really frustrating so what about instead we increase the amount of damage the bubble can absorb before it breaks?
… NO THANKS
The problem with Goats isn’t Damage output, it’s the healing output.
The sustain achievable by having Payload healing(if you are attacking)+Lucio aura+ Brigitte aura + Stacked armor, repair pack, Moira spray, Moira orb as well as three support ultimates comboed with defensive abilities like Defense matrix, bubble and Rein’s shield as well the high health pools of the tanks. You end up with a composition where nothing hardly dies. Heroes that supposedly would be good against this kind of composition do not get any real headway because they are unable to out damage the sustain unless mistakes are being made.
Which is why rather than trying counter Goats compositions you more often end up with mirror matches of Goats vs Goats where matches are decided either by teams doing mistakes or whoever utilizes ultimates better in a teamfight.
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There is a much stronger distinction between main and off tanks I believe. Main tanks make space, off tanks provide some other utility. Main tanks have a very strong purpose whereas off tanks can be played differently depending on the player/enemy comp.
Reinhardt and Orisa make space with their barriers. Orisa has some added utility since she can stall with fortify but Reinhardt has the more flexible and (numbers wise) stronger barrier (although Orisa has more barrier uptime). Winston makes space by isolating and interrupting enemy dps with his leap and bubble.
Some people consider Hammond a main tank (I disagree). He doesn’t have the same disruption as Winston + bubble and if he sticks around too long he gets stunned and feeds hard. I would call Hammond an off tank. He’s a disruptor who can draw a lot of focus onto himself but he can also be quickly stunned and killed or just ignored since once he blows cooldowns his damage isn’t the best.
D.Va is and has been the strongest off tank for a long time. She can peel for a backline with DM and boosters, she can dive with Winston and use her DM to stop most CC on him, she can solo dive out of position squishies and burst them down with micro missiles, and her bomb lets her stall out a point by creating a massive danger zone and giving her a second life.
Zarya synergizes mainly with Reinhardt, although she can work with Winston. Her projected bubble lets him charge without feeding, which enables some of the over aggressiveness of GOATs. She can save a teammate from a 1-2 person dive with a bubble (with more divers 200 hp isn’t gonna cut it) and at high charge she’s literally just a dps with 400 hp. Her graviton is also a very strong ultimate and combos well with tons of other ults and abilities.
Roadhog’s main utility is geared towards letting him get kills. His hook can violate out of position squishies or flankers, his shotgun works for pretty good shieldbreak, and his self heal lets him feed without dying. His ult can kill anyone if he gets them in a corner or there’s an environmental hazard, otherwise it just pushes people around and can instantly bust shields. Roadhog plays selfishly, so he’s the least “tank” of the off tanks.