Sym does need love.
The only way I can succeeded with is with a good Rein, I push in with him behind his sheild slowly draining the other Reins barrier, by then I am fully amped up. She is way to dependant on her team, like Bastion, that is not a healthy way to have a hero.
Yeah I am. Then give her sustain of somekind, like shields and she could be. I mean Zen barely heals
She did not deserve the turret dps nerf. That took away 30 dps max potential for her combos. And her damage was not compensated elsewhere.
if symm will be buffed again and genji wont im reporting blizzard for gameplay sabotage
You’re assuming a LOT based on what could just be a coding bug - after everything that has happened with OW and Blizzard lately do you really want to just be giving them the benefit of the doubt that they’re ‘working on it’??? Sure seems like you’re giving them a lot of credit over what is literally an accident.
I remember way back when it was announced Symmetra would receive a second rework, one of the things I suggested was that if an enemy was being hit by 3+ turrets at the same time, it should lock off their movement abilities. Like Graviton Surge do. This would prevent high mobility heroes from simply escaping the turret ranges, and serve her purpose as a mobility counter. It would also provide some interesting interactions, like stopping a red Rein charge if he goes through a warded gate.
Then Sym3 arrives as a completely new character (mechanically speaking), and this buff would be too strong when you can throw turrets from afar.
IMO, builders in general should be strong at countering high mobility threats. It’s how things should work: Bulky tanky types are easy prey from enemies that can outrange them, fast nimble types are easily shutdown from enemies that can prepare in advance, and static defensive types should be countered with raw damage and resilience.
Torb is still good against mobility heroes (although the new Molten Core is stronger against tank types), but current Sym got in that weird spot where she don’t have enough damage to fight tank types, nor the countermeasures that would allow her to stop mobile heroes on their tracks.
Sym was build originally to be a support character. As such, her whole concept revolves around empowering her team instead of dirtying her own hands. When they moved her to DPS, it clashed with her original design, and now she can’t do enough damage or supporting.
IMO, Blizzard should come back to their original stance that support do not mean healer, and move Sym and Sombra into support. Because that’s what they do best, work as the “third DPS” of the team, and creating opportunities for their teammates to engage (Sombra) or not be engaged (Sym).
I dont play symmetra but what you are saying does make sense her gun just doesnt seem to fit in her kit since you have to get close.
Deleting her sounds like the best option
The rule of nature is:
Those who adept - survive.
Complaining and moaning just makes the pain much worse. We need to find peace with the current situation before we know what to look for in the future.
When Genji gets 0.2 pickrate, give me a call.
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So lay down and quietly accept everything that happens to you, never point out when there are flaws in anything, never push for improvement or change?
Yeah, that’s a way to ‘live’ I guess. Have fun with it, cuz it ain’t for me son.
Not what I meant.
I never was a Zen person. Im extremely volatile by nature and very much short tempered.
But rage just leads to more bad things
Pointing out when something has problems is not ‘rage’, attributing critique and commentary as just ‘you’re angry’ is one of the things that kills modern discourse.
I have the impression that’s true for most Sym2 mains. Some also add Torb and Sombra to the list because they were/are also DPS/support hybrids.
Blizzard kept saying support did not meant healer, and we as Sym mains embraced it. Healing by itself do not make a good support unit. Support is defined by being a force multiplier instead of a force addition. I remember people criticizing old Sym for just allowing the team to “win harder”, when that’s pretty much the definition of a support unit. If your team is not carrying their weight, no matter how many times you multiply zero, it stays at zero.
IMO, backing off from that statement was the worse design decision Blizzard ever made to Overwatch. I really hate role queue, but from a design perspective I can see some benefits from this mechanic. Closing the design door for future non-healing supports was worse.
Give her Brigitte old Repair pack, but instead of “instant 150 heal, excess go up to 75 overheal armor”, it would be “instant 150 decaying shields, decay 30 per second, heal 30 HPS while target retain any temporary shield”. Basically, it would turn any decaying shield into healing, which for practical purposes would be similar to the old repair pack.
So, it would give allies a burst of extra shields, and since temporary shields are expended before any other health source, if you use it to stop a big damage burst, you don’t heal your ally, but if you use it outside combat, it would heal up to 150 HP in the next 5 seconds.
This would be a recall to her old Photon Shield from Sym 1.0.
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The ramp up. She’s the only character with this mechanic and it only gives her the stigma as a terrible DPS. Most ramp ups reward by having rapid first-rate or astronomical damage values. But the rate of decay, range and damage values underperform compared to her peers. If both a soldier and Symmetra meet unexpectedly, the Soldier has nothing to worry about since Symmetra will never be able to out damage the soldier in the first few seconds it takes for him to land his shots.
Another ability with Windup. Between the time of flight, attaching to a surface and assembling itself to be able to fire; this is a pre-plan ability. I thought they were getting rid of abilities that have no place in active combat or were at least making said abilities capable in active combat.
The same problems that plagued 2.0 build are now resurfacing in the 3.0 build.
Been saying this for 2 years, but in other words. Players just got too blind by the hype than realize what’s happening. Sym before 3.0 she was quite durable, but just needed little tweaks in survivability, support potential and lower cool down on turrets. However when 3.0 came she just gotten worst and players refusing to see the difference all because they solely think about auto lock when it comes to before 3.0.
Nothing else, but auto lock when it comes to those people.
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Not really, imo. Symmetra sucks everywhere. She’s literally the 2nd least picked DPS hero in BRONZE. She’s far from OP even in the rank where people don’t know how to outplay turrets. Considering Bastion has a niche in Bronze, I’d go out of my way to say she’s the worst hero in the game at all ranks, closely followed by Bastion and Sombra.
There’s zero legitimate excuses as to why she doesn’t deserve to be viable or to receive buffs.
Even if “weaker” than 2.0 in her og niche situation, I like the design of 3.0 much more. I hope there are good ways to buff her.
Looking at her turrets I think is a good way. Torbjorn got a lot better after not having to level up his turret manually.
I know a lot of players suggested that the turrets should only do slow instead or even act as a “sensor” (act like Hanzo’s Sonic Arrow) and turrets like that could have a lot more hp than 30 (maybe 100?). But then if they could look through walls and you had 3 of them then no flanker could attempt… flanking. And only slowing might not be worth anything at all, considering how many movement abilities exist to bypass them entirely.
What I want for her myself right now is:
-
Teleporter revert to pre infinite duration
No more spawn taxi - Reduced heat hitbox
- Turret slow effect not being stackable with other Sym turrets
Slow of a single turret could be increased to compensate - Recovering ammo on shield hp and not just barrier
- Changing damage stages from 60/120/180 to 90/150
Mostly it brings her minimal power potential up and her maximum power down. Symmetra’s greatest weakness, in my opinion, is that she requres time to get that maximum power, a lot of it too. And that max power can usually target only a single person.
Every other character compared to her tends to start at 100% effeciency and only go up from there (resource meter for Defense Matrix or Moira heals start at 100%, Doomfist gains shields the more he is doing and Brig activates a passive regen on top of all her other abilities), but Symmetra starts at her lowest damage stage and with 0 turrets active. Even the teleporter takes a second to get ready. In the meantime, many, many other characters have an instant “self help” (heal, invulnerability, escape) ability, which only helps to outperform Symmetra.
Torbjorn and Bastion too need only one button press to get their maximum potential (turret placement, which automatically gets to lvl 2 and builds very quickly; Bastion sentry mode, just one button away). Symmetra has a delay on everything that isn’t her ultimate ( which is also delayed by requiring ult charge, if you want to see it that way).
Any change that reduces that fluctuation of power is what I think is good for Symmetra. Less damage stages, less turrets or turrets not stacking effects are some ways to go about it.
Heck, imagine if a single turret output 80 damage, ~40% slow and had ~100hp, but each turret can only target a single person. Suddenly she is less of a 1v1 close quarter combat god after the opponent kindly waits for 5 seconds, but has more impact in group fights and is perhaps more able to deter flankers without handicapping her own damage output during an enemy group push. I don’t know, just a weird though.
Instant teleporter or 250hp are all nice quick ideas that I believe change nothing in the end as her core problems are the same. Would a Symmetra at 400hp really be meta? Or would she be op, because suddenly she always reaches her ridiculous 180dps? There is very little middle ground with how her abilities are designed, so bringing min/max performance might create an actual “middle ground” for her to really be balanced around.
Oh, and spawn taxi is a horrible mechanic that I wish they removed from the game again.
Not exactly.
Good Torb players already played him like the current Torb. You level up the turret to level 2 when the fight is over and you are on downtime expecting the next push. If for some reason you had to place a new turret mid-fight, you would place it ASAP and not bothering leveling it up. Because Torb weapons did more damage than his turret. It’s always better to just spam cheetos than sacrificing your own DPS to upgrade a turret that even after upgrade will still deal a lot less damage than you.
What his turret rework did was streamline this process, so that players could understand that he is not TF2 Engie, and is not supposed to spend all his time just repairing his turret and expecting it to deal the brunt of his damage.
But despite that, the loss of level 3 turret ultimate means that there is less counters in the game against high-mobility heroes. New Molten Core was crafted to deal with Goats. Overload is a self armor pack that disregard team protection, which is not too different from those selfish Torbs that would hold upon all their scrap to self-armoring only, but it reduced effectiveness for old Torb mains that used to spread armor across his team.
As a Torb main, since launch, I’d say the Torb rework was a change of power structure, not necessarily a “buff”. While his damage output increased a bit, it did so by sacrificing versatility, and making him more of a selfish DPS than the multifront defensive powerhouse he was before.
IMO, they should ditch the ramp-up mechanic and simply give Sym a static damage beam. The ramp-up was a balancing mechanic to keep the autolock beam in check. Since the beam is no longer autolock, it should be a static damage beam. Sym already have too many moving parts on her kit, and DPS heroes need some level of consistency. Nothing on Sym’s kit currently is consistent, which is why it’s so hard to get value from her kit, despite them all being amazing on paper.
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What happens in GM is pointless to most of us.
No it’s not, as that’s what the game is being balanced around.