I’m not a main tank player. Wouldn’t want to be, especially in this current meta, but I understand how vital and important they are to a well formed team and really appreciate the job they do and the people who play them.
Tanks, especially Rein are in an awkward place, with the amount of CC in the game currently, which is why I’d propose putting Rein back in the place he should be, as the immovable object against the unstoppable force of CC.
Now, any changes to abilities are obviously contentious, but I think that a new passive (something like “Linchpin”) would be ideal for rein given his susceptibility to being battered around like a cheap piece of chicken. This passive would render him completely immune to stuns and would reduce knockback when his shield is up. This would mean only pinned charges from other Reinhardts and from Doomfist would CC him or Mei ults.
Whilst the McCree flashbang would suffer from this, I think it’s important to introduce some hard anti-CC into the game, and would definitely provide some much needed counter-play to the current Brigitte shield bash spam. She’s supposed to be his squire, yet she bullies him into submission.
Disclaimer - I main Tracer and other DPS, but this comes from a place of seeing just how hard a time Rein is getting and this seems like the kind of passive ability that could be just what we need to provide a bedrock to team building and the role team comps should be built around. It’s the opposite of dive without the oppression of CC overload.
Edit: I forgot to mention this would only apply when his shield is up, else it might be a bit OP.
26 Likes
Rein is looking to be mandatory in this current meta, primarily swapped out when it’s a map that favours Orisa (eg sanctum).
You can’t buff him when you already need him to win.
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Look at any other Blizzard game and you will see the design philosophy is always the same:
Step 1: make DPS characters have the ability to wipe out any other character in the game before they can react
Step 2: Add abilities that compliment DPS characters to allow them to delete any other character before they can react; Primarily Stuns which equate to removing the players control devices, because it is the easiest Crowd Control mechanism to create.
Just look at McCree he is the physical embodiment of this design in OW, you get to close he will make it so you have no chance to react then proceed to either HS 2-3 times before you regain control (Totalling 300-450 dmg enough to kill all but the beefiest tanks) or just use the EZ DPS mode of Fan the Hammer (300 dmg, still enough to delete anything but tanks) and follow that up by immediately refreshing his DPS potential with combat roll.
Flashbang should do exactly that, temporarily disorient the character not completely disable it, unless it isn’t actually a flashbang than in that case don’t be misleading, wouldn’t be that hard to blur the screen, reduce mouse scroll speed to a set limit (already do this in round transitions anyway) and make it so they can’t hear anything other then comms (doing so won’t give advantage to people who use external VOIP programs).
It’s Actually amazing that it’s only gotten to this state only now after 9 seasons, I’m actually impressed tbh, I would rather play OW than MoP PvP still though.
2 Likes
wow the overreaction on these forums is insane.
one stun gets added to the game and all of a sudden we need anti stun?? what a joke.
Rein needs buffs but stun resistance is a terrible idea to bring into the game, before you know it every will be crying for more resistance to stuns making them pointless
Fix Rein’s bugs
Increase his shield regen rate
Increase his charge speed
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one stun gets added to the game and all of a sudden we need anti stun?? what a joke.
To be honest, I think he should have had anti-CC for the longest time, not just now.
Stuns in general are generic, bland and terrible aspects of game design.
CC should be creative, I dislike Ana’s Sleep dart due to the blanket stun it adds on first application but it is a CC that is actually interesting in practise.
Stuns are bad there should be no need to even suggest anti stun abilities or mechanics.
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Stuns in general are generic, bland and terrible aspects of game design.
Agreed, but what Jeff giveth, Jeff seem unwilling to taketh away 
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FB = 0.7 secs
Peacekeeper fire rate = 1 per 0.5secs
Well played!
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Just saying but here’s an idea for a passive ability every 40 or 30 or whatever you get immune to one stun and it also has the power of stacking the immune stuns.Hope I helped! 
How would this work with Sombra’s hack and Mei’s freeze?
Wouldn’t this also not make him invulnerable in their ultimates?
I rather see some knockback resistance when Reinhardt is using his shield instead of immunity to stuns.
But to be honest, I don’t think he needs a buff. At least not a massive one.
His pickrate is still healthy in all ranks and he has a positive winrate.
Small note:
Dva and orisa have a resistance to knockbacks when they are shooting, but this is confirmed to be a bug:
Didn’t realise FB gave an massive speed boost ability making you able to flee from McCree at a higher rate then his ability to shoot a few times.
Kind of defeats the purpose of a CC ability IMO, but if that’s what Blizz wants…
How would this work with Sombra’s hack and Mei’s freeze?
Hack would work as usual. Freeze doesn’t work from the front of the shield anyway.
Wouldn’t this also not make him invulnerable in their ultimates?
No, this is would be purely on stun effects and knockback.
1 Like
You literally said shoot 2-3 times BEFORE YOU REGAIN CONTROL. Don’t try to move goalposts. He’s already the squishiest dps and has 0 escape and sustain. As a McCree you either kill them or die. If you want to nerf his killing ability then you better give him a big buff in survivability/sustain/escape.
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Your solution sounds like:
- Earth is not round, it’s flat!
- Then how do you end up in the same place if you travel all the way to a single direction?
- See Pac-Man for more details
CC was not a problem to Rein until now. Instead of changing the problematic element that caused that (e.g flat earth assumption), you propose to enhance it with arguments (Pac Man)!
It’s just my opinion, but I don’t see a reason to put perma fortify to Rein…
It’s just my opinion, but I don’t see a reason to put perma fortify to Rein…
The rest of your post wasn’t very cogent, but as far as this goes:
Me: this would only apply when his shield is up
&
Also: this is would be purely on stun effects and knockback
I don’t play either Lucio or Pharah, but booping Reins is a core mechanic for them. Also, it needs guts to go right in Reins face as McCree, so I don’t see the point of not getting any reward. Finally, dart is considered stun with different effect. I have flanked many Reins as Ana, why shouldn’t I be rewarded for my positioning and awareness? Brigitte doesn’t either need guts nor special positioning. Brigitte is to blame, not the pre-existing CCs.
booping Reins is a core mechanic for them
which is why I proposed a reduced knockback, not a total elimination of it.
dart is considered stun with different effect
It’s a sleep, I would consider it more like hack. I have no problem with sleep at all as it’s already blocked by the shield.
guts to go right in Reins face as McCree, so I don’t see the point of not getting any reward
Tbh, McCree stunning over the shield always felt wrong. I like McCree a lot, but his stun on a shielded rein (at the very least from the front) should definitely fall to this passive ability.
According to Rein mains, McCree stun was fine because it is a projectile and it can be baited/countered by looking upwards. The point of a rework is to make a hero viable and at the same time interesting. Rein can block all of those effects (perhaps except Anas because she is out of his LoS) if played well. Creating a unstoppable moving shield isn’t a convincing solution to me. Also, if he has some kind of resistance to knockbacks, what would haopen to DFs uppercut? He would be lower than DFs jump… 
I love how all these people that haven’t played Reinhardt are saying he’s fine, I dare you to pick him on comp without tilting or without switching to a different hero. As I Reinhardt main I confirm that he’s in a bad position right now, and picking him without certain heroes to “babysit” him is worst than throwing the game. Also Reinhardt has been in an awkward position for a long time and with addition of Brigitte it was the final nail in the coffin. Let’s not forget about the Symmetra rework coming in the future, and how they are converting her to a main shield tank scrub destroying machine.
With all the counters he has, all the bugs that makes you hate your life as a Reinhardt player, and how little to nothing you can do against all the CC effects out there, and people still say that he’s “fine” just because his pick rates are good. Let me tell you a secret, buffs and nerfs does little to pick rates, we see in the Zen and D.va nerfs and how that did nothing to their pick rates. On the other hand, we’ve got Doomfist, Sombra, Reaper, and mei buffs and guess what they’re hardly picked in competitive. Especially poor Sombra how everyone freaked out when the devs gave her a massive buff, the a hot fix nerf followed shortly after.
Pick rates means nothing when it comes to the state of a character, and giving Reinhardt the buffs he needs and fixing all his 2 years bugs won’t break the game. Giving Reinhardt the CC resistance when shielding (I said resistance not immunity) will hardly effect the game, but will change the life of our beloved crusader drastically!
He has high pick rates because he’s one of 2 main shield tank, and as we all know Orisa doesn’t appeal for many people making Reinhardt the only option left for however wants to flex. They don’t want to play him, they want a fair chance of winning by making a reasonable team comp. stop mentioning pick rates, it means nothing to the game balance.
Mercy was op and has high pick rates pre rework, and after the rework she still has the record of highest pick rates. Even in OWL she’s the most picked hero and I don’t think that’s a reason for the devs to nerf her in the future.
Hero balancing has nothing to do with pick rates!!
2 Likes
A little bit of exaggeration to emphasise a point never killed anyone, and no I’m not suggesting McCree be nerfed, in fact I don’t even think he needs to be nerfed compared to the majority of DPS Heros, but I do believe stuns, such as flashbang are stupid, lazy design.