Do they realize every other hero in the game is effected by these CCs as well?
104 Likes
No you see, the default state should be that characters like Genji should be immune to CC, else it’s unfair and is a counter. 
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People will scramble at any attempt to say that Genji was “The most countered hero in the game”
While Bastion or Symmetra exist
Even Ana, who people love to cry and say is OP, has more hard counters than Genji. Literally a single Barrier between her and her teammates cuts her value in half
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I think the argument is more about how Genji lacks tools to protect himself/react to stuns despite having to work within stunnable ranges in order to be effective. Most close range heroes have extra health and even some defensive ability to prevent being stunned, or at least have an option to hide behind after a stun, while other heroes aren’t bound to play in a range in which they get stunned, and thus don’t have to worry about them as much, such as long range heroes. Genji’s only reaction to stuns is to manually avoid them and call them out with Deflect, but if that fails, he’ll be held in place and swarmed too quickly to just break free from, even after the stun wears off. As a result of being in enemy backlines, he’s also unlikely to get support from a teammate to bail him out, either.
So I mean I don’t think it’s unfair to say that Genji is indeed countered by stuns more so than other heroes. But most people thumping this argument are trying to deflect criticism of the hero’s strengths, often exaggerating how dangerous stuns are to Genji. That said, Genji definitely has to be more concerned about stuns than someone like Widowmaker, even more so than someone like Reaper. Stuns might act the same universally, but the threat and impact of those stuns varies depending on who its aimed at.
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Except then Genji is super buffed and all the CC was nerfed into the trash can~
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It means he’s more vulnerable to it.
While every hero is vulnerable to CC, most are not countered by them because most heroes don’t have to be in CC range.
Generally speaking, heroes that play at close range are those most vulnerable to CC, of whom:
Doom has higher base hp and self-generate shields for additional sustain
Reaper has higher base hp and life steal for additional sustain.
Tracer and Genji are comparatively more vulnerable to CC than those two.
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Genji lives in melee range with almost the entire enemy team. He is affected just as much as anyone else by CC, but he is subjected to it much more often, and therefore CC is better against him.
Widow, for example, is hurt just as much by CC, but it is rare for the CCer to get close enough to use their CC on her.
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The trade off is that those heroes are much less affected by barriers because they get in close. Long range heroes are the opposite, much safer from cc but get their damage blocked by barriers.
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I wish that’s the case someday soon, but right now this is still the most ridiculous, oppressive and infuriating aspect of the game.
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Yeah, but I imagine having the second most in combat mobility and the best 3D mobility in the game makes for a great tool in manually avoiding CC.
When I play Genji and Tracer, I only get stunned by Heroes I’m not paying attention to. When facing someone like a McCree or a Roadhog head on, there’s no reason to be getting hit by their CC because you can literally see the windup of the move and react with your mobility, with swift strike, or with deflect.
Both Doomfist and Reaper are larger with larger hitboxes and critboxes than Genji and Tracer; as a result, they’re more likely to be hit with CC and with the followup.
Tracer and Genji are only more vulnerable if the CC lands and the followup lands as well, due to their lower HP and inability to gain it back. But actually landing the CC is harder on both of them when compared to Reaper or Doomfist.
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Yes, but ranged heroes are still safe from CCs most of the time. Them having to chew through barriers is a different matter.
Hard for Ana. It’s very easy to CC with abilities like flash, bash, halt, boop, conc mine, even against Genji/Tracer.
Either way, flankers all need to be careful with enemy’s CC more than non-flankers. Doom and Reaper are still more vulnerable to CCs than ranged heroes.
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genji has to play in the range of all of those CCs to be effective
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I mean yeah it does but the fact is still that he has to work a lot more to respond to these stuns, proactively, more so than other heroes have to. Heroes with longer ranges of effectiveness aren’t as susceptible to most stuns, and other heroes that work in close ranges like Genji have other traits that make them less punished/less at risk to stuns than Genji’s kit.
You can tote having the reflexes on Genji and Tracer to dodge every on-screen stun, I guess I have to believe you. But realistically speaking, Genji will inevitably get called out by a stun, even one he can theoretically see coming, and he will get punished severely for being caught in that. No Genji or Tracer, except Xaron allegedly, can dodge every Hook and Shield Bash and Flashbang, every single time. If Genji is a problem for your team, adding more of these stuns to your composition will objectively mitigate Genji’s success and put him more at risk while playing in the area he’s intended to play in.
cc affects mobile heroes the most.
Shes not op she just gets a lot of value too easily. Yes she takes skill, but i don’t have a hard time getting the same amount of value out of her then when I play zen.
Except he’s not? He has all the tolls to avoid it.
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Zen’s current problem is his entire purpose is mostly moot (Discord) because of how much DPS powercreep there is, and the current meta DPS picks
Giving Ashe damage boost pushes her damage too high letting her kill squishty targets too fast, which you don’t want because you want your Genji to build as many Dragonblades as fast as possible
So Zen isn’t wanted or needed in the meta atm
There’s also the problem with Ladder players taking too much damage. Even in GM, players make mistakes, and the current game environment, Zen just can’t keep up.
If Damage was lower, Zen would make a HUGE comeback
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What is the deflect for the love of god.
What is MOBILITY. Mei never countered Genji because Genji can disengage from her on demand.
Literally the only CC that Genji cant escape or deflect is Feeties Man’s magic rock.
Meanwhile Sym gets hardcountered by McCree’s existance.
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In most ranks people are just scared of Genji. That is my opinion; bronze - diamond players begin to sweat and become frantic when they hear blade. Instead of focusing Genji in this time they… do nothing or try to run.
People seem to do the opposite of what I think they should be doing, which is a combination of dmg focus and cc stun.
I think one of the most effective strats overall in OW, in a general term, is overwhelming dmg and focus.
If CC had unlimited range and was easy to apply, yes.
But most CC is either:
Soft: Useless vs mobile heroes because slows dont do anything vs blinks/dashes.
Hard: limited by things like range and aiming, so its easier to land on inmobile heroes.
There is a reason Mei never countered neither Tracer or Genji unless they are stupid.
5 Likes