1 player still has the majority of responsibility of how the match goes in a 5v5 game where everyone is supposed to have equal value. This has always been a terrible idea in any multiplayer PvP game.
It’s still a mystery why the devs are committed to the tank slot being the most influential/powerful by a mile. In most cases if you get the superior tank it’s a free win, and if you get the bad tank it’s an auto loss. Even if the other 4 players on your team are good, you’re not getting a single objective if the enemy team has the better tank. The better tank will simply demolish any DPS/supports who try to take the objective.
And no, it wasn’t any better in OW1 because the tank duo still dictated match outcomes in OW1. If your team had the superior tank duo, it was an easy steamroll. If your team had the worse tank duo, you wouldn’t be even able to leave spawn.
31 Likes
So as it turns out, playing the punching bag isn’t really fun for most players and led to there being very few tank players in queue. Removing one remedies this.
The problem is now, despite removing a tank, there’s now once again very few people queuing for tank.
Either way, one tank on each team doing the job of two tanks needs to be buffed to compensate. Tanks have to be strong by design or they become afterthoughts and not tanks.
22 Likes
NAH THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT HARCOUNTERS. more than ow1
10 Likes
Actually, no, removing one tank made it worse. What Blizz should have done was improve the tank gameplay, not make it even more miserable.
13 Likes
I’m still of the opinion that backlines screw tanks over extremely heavily because of what options they pick. I can be picking Sigma to try to stuff the healing and DPS support from an enemy bastion and ana that is trying to support their doomfist.
Meanwhile, my backline will decide to play Zen, Widow, Tracer, Mercy. This whole backline is a confused mess of nonsense. Numerous times its dive tank vs dive tank Winston vs Hammond and my own backline won’t pick the easiest bloody counter in the entire game against Hammond.
7 Likes
Yeah, so it’s almost like without Tanks no one has the opportunity to push forward, meaning that if one team has more opportunity they’ll win.
There’s no way to actually fix that without making Tanks into DPS.
Tanks already are DPS, that’s the funny thing. Tanks are literally the best DPS duelists, and if you’re a DPS or support player then one of your highest priorities is to avoid fighting a tank 1v1. If a tank decides to come after you, your only option is to run and hope that your whole team can pressure the tank enough to use a defensive and retreat.
2 Likes
This is what happens when you take the easy way out in regards to tank balance.
4 Likes
They’re really not. They have more sustain and less offensive capability. Yes, they win 1v1s, but they can’t go for kills OR 1v1s without throwing.
And the best duelist in the game isn’t a Tank, either.
2 Likes
One role in the game controls all the sustain.
EVERY MATCH is a support diff.
Yep, which is why 6v6 was better. Tanks need to be strong because they’re the only one in their role. But once they’re down then there is pretty much no hope because the enemy still has their op tank. In 6v6 your tank dying still put you at a large disadvantage, but you had more of a fighting chance than when your tank dies in 5v5.
5 Likes
Games always been a tank diff true. Today I saw super a top 500 tank go against a gm 4 tank. Cool matchmaking zzzz
Also in quickplay I went against Flats. He was on tank against a diamond tank. Those games are unwinnable.
2 Likes
You can stil turn the game around. I had a game with a bad tank that was going in alone 1v5 dying few times. But because our heals was 2 times more than the enemies we enabled our dps to play better and save our tanks from stupid rambo plays.
And what about those DPS smurfs going 20 killstreaks with 0-1 deaths completely dominating the match one clipping the enemy healers on tracer? It’s not always tank Diff.
1 Like
ngl, but I flex and I don’t see this. I feel like any role can be a diff.
2 Likes
So not as much as you might think, the role is healthy in the sense that it’s only supposed to sustain only half the dps/support role player base. Do to only needing half the amount of tanks in game as the other two roles.
And I rarely find the game asking me to fill tank specifically, if anything it’s support that’s usually a little under populated. At least before the new hero, DPS is now the major role that it’s asking you to fill at the moment.
People here always choose to lay the blame exclusively on one role (usually the one they think is OP) as if it’s not a complex team game with many random factors, before you even take into account the people in those roles. Sure single games can be the problem of one part but every game is Tank/DPS or Supp diff? Sounds like you’re passing off blame.
The tank can feed or hide and leave no space for the team to operate, supports can not heal/save or be offensive enough to enable their team and DPS can miss every shot making the game effectively 3v5. Maybe no one groups up or focuses the same targets. Maybe everyone forgets to peel…There are a million ways things go wrong.
If you want to talk about matchmaking that’s another issue but in a 50/50 game everyone needs to play their part.
6 Likes
Of course any role can be diff. But 1 dps player diff or 1 support player diff isn’t anywhere NEAR as impactful on the match as tank diff. That’s the point.
Nobody is blaming games exclusively on one role. They’re saying that in OW2 the tank player holds the majority of responsibility/power on each team.
Think of it like chess pieces. The supports and DPS are equivalent of bishops/rooks, and the tank is the queen. If you lose your queen and the enemy team still has their’s, 99% of the time you lose that round. In every OW2 teamfight on the objective, the tank player has the biggest say by a mile.
In a 5v5 multiplayer game it’s an extremely stupid idea to give 1 player such a disproportionate amount of responsibility and power.
3 Likes
I feel that team composition matters even more now in OW2. And every role is suffering due to team composition diff.
Back in OW1, the importance of picking the right hero was mostly dependent on tank and supports. But now, I feel like even DPS has to pick the right hero or we lose.
One tricking a hero isn’t as easy as it used to be anymore. It’s more important than ever to adapt to your team in 5v5.
4 Likes
I said it back when 5v5 was announced: the autonomy or personal impact people were begging for also applies to the rest of the team as well.
Assuming everyones potential game impact is equal, each player went from being about 16.7% of the teams value to 20%. That means that each person’s decisions (good or bad) are around 19.76% more impactful now.
It’s objectively worse when it come to the tank role. There is a single person responsible for the tank role now, so even if they technically represent 20% of the team, they’re 100% of the role.
So previously a dead tank meant the team lost 16.7% of overall team power and 50% of their tanks.
Now it’s 20% of team power and 100% of their tanks.