Freja is the new Sojourn, but people still doesn't know it

General Discussion
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The simplest way to explain it is that Freja’s skill floor is higher than low elo players can manage.

She’s still a very aim intensive hero, with no way to confirm her main damaging ability, or another ability they can use to deal damage more easily, like how Soldier has Helix, or Ashe has Dynamite.

Not to mention those heroes are hitscan. Hitscans are far easier for low elo players to pick up, theyre just more intuitive and more consistent. You look at plat games and youll see they dont all actually have outrageously bad aim, they just are horrendous with consistency.

Well Freja demands consistency to find value, with no way to guarantee her damage, or any other ability that lets her actually deal some damage in an easier way.

But up in high elo? Double body shot is NOT a hard ask. Having good mechanical skill is the bare minimum requirement to be a Masters DPS player.

Freja’s issue is Blizzard desperately wants a character tied solely to mechanical demands to be low elo viable when it just isnt realistic, and those concessions they make in order to try and make that happen is making her ungodly easy and powerful for high elo.

You change Freja’s kill combo to require a headshot and a body shot instead of double body shot? She’d be in a MUCH better position for high elo than she is now, but she’d be completely unplayable for low elo

Not to mention in order to lower the consistency requirement with her explosive bolts Blizzard has opted to lower the punishment of missing a bolt by just having them come back constantly with short cooldown dash resets.

Which again is something that is disproportionately more valuable in the hands of good players. Her cooldowns are so quick that her explosive bolts realistically have no down time, Freja will ALWAYS have kill pressure at all times, even if you watch her use both dashes back to back.

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Quoted for emphasis.

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64

For one people DEFINITELY complain about Ashe, so get that out of your head immediately

And for two, theres an extremely massive difference in landing two body shots vs landing two back to back headshots. The amount of skill and consistency required is completely different.

Same for Hanzo and Widow, they both need headshots to one shot but please dont pretend that somehow this community hasnt found their oneshots problematic for ages now. Bringing them in as some sort of gotcha makes no sense when Widow has consistently been treated as a problem for ages.

And for the other hitscans of Cree and Ashe, while Ashe’s isnt as noticable, she still cant 2 shot headshot inside of common ranges for her character like first and third of Havana.

Cree actually requires 3 headshots for a vast majority of sightlines since his damage fall off is very harsh.

Another reason why your comparison is dog water garbage a 5 year old could shut down? Freja’s explosive bolts fire far far FAR faster than all of those heroes you listed. Once the stick is in youre guaranteed the damage regardless of if you take cover after getting stuck, where as none of those heroes can shoot you with their primary once cover is taken.

Funny how attack speed has a bearing on things huh? They might be able to fire off 2 shots in .7 seconds, but Freja can fire them off in .3 and, unlike Cree or Ashe, suffers zero damage falloff.

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65

This is a good suggestion. It makes the necessary changes without gutting the hero.

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Best part too is it mirrors the other projectile heroes like Mei and Torb who can 1H1B, only Freja’s unique bit is her attack speed is MUCH faster, offset by the timer on the bolts.

It gives her her own niche among the projectile heroes, while still keeping her aim requirements lower than the hitscans.

Though she realistically still needs a nerf to her cooldowns, she has nearly zero downtime, especially at level 3.

Only issue that arises is once again we find Freja having met the same fate as Sojourn. Barely usable in low elo.

But Blizzard desperately wants both Freja and Soj to be low elo viable, ruining high elo.

Blizzard hasnt learned that you cant make heroes who rely solely on raw mechanical ability and design them around average players first. It bricks high elo completely, and its obvious when you see Freja has apparently taken over Pro Play and is among the most popular top 500 heroes despite no one having even half of a season to practice her.

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Every hero should have the potential to be viable in low elo, but require more effort to reach that potential if they have a high skill floor in comparison to a low skill floor hero.

I think instead of balancing around the idea of making every hero viable in low elo, they should balance around the idea of giving them the potential to be viable.

Your idea definitely accomplishes that.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyMINnS3pGE

Thought you guys might be interested in this.

Didn’t know you could cancel her reload for another Take Aim shot, that’s neat.

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Both buffs went through. I’ve just tested in the practice range, I’m fairly sure it’s 3.5 sec. And, I’ve also tested in custom game by increasing her dash cd to 400%, which gives me 14 sec cooldown time, which means her current cooldown is 14sec/4 = 3.5sec. I don’t know why would you think it’s still 4.5 sec.

Sure, she might have some issue due to the delay damage, but please, hitting 2 take aim shots consecutively is not that hard.

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She isnt hard meta though lol

What evidence do you have she is hard meta? Some stats from a pro tournament which is completely irrelevant to the actual game…

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You seem to be missing the point where if you are at a high elo freja will not be that big of an issue because players in those ranks have the awareness to deal with her

Its only in the low ranks where people do not have the reaction speeds to deal with her. Good news is likely at those ranks most ppl cannot play freja so she isnt hitting 2 shots back to back

She is balanced. At high ranks ppl will hit more shots consistently but ppl will also play against her more consistently. At low ranks ppl will not react as fast but theyll be dealing with frejas who do not hit back 2 back shots

She’s fine. End of story

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Freja would literally be unplayable if she cannot 2 shot someone without a crit lol. The most consistent ways she gets kills atm is by hitting the 2 shots on the same target and hoping they receive no healing or support. By forcing a crit You would never kill anyone with that low dmg. She already has to hit 2 back to back shots and commit a cd to even do that. There are heroes that can 2 tap with no cd requirement at all. You are never going to win a duel or secure a kill with that bad of a kill requirement

At that point You are basically making her 2 tap require you to hit 3 shots on the target instead. Meaning She would have to commit both her dash resets just to potentially kill 1 standard health enemy. That would be the worst ttk in the entire game and would require her to have major compensation buffs like additional dash charges or even shorter dash cd.

Unlike other heroes who can 1h1b kill someone, frejas dmg is not instant. She cannot hit a crit then body and immediately kill that person. Each shot has a major delay on it that already can turn what to other heroes would take 2 hits take 3 for her.

If a hero like hanzo is allowed to 1 shot crit ppl then a hero like freja who has the potential to 2 shot bodyshot someone (but more likely it already take 3 shots cus that person is highly likely to get healed or use a cd requiring an additional shot to kil them anyway) is fine

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She’s blatantly overpowered once you’re in masters+. Most heroes cannot even begin to contest her because her absurd mobility combined with the damage is far too much. Even hitscans can only situationally deal with her since she lacks any fall off.

She counters too much of the roster while being competitive with the few who can contest her and there isn’t any more to it than that. It’s a failed design.

She’s already being regularly banned in high ranks yet the forums are in denial about her power just like they were with Sojourn.

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74

I love you so much, my friend.

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Freya feels like a mix between Junkrat and Hanzo. Missing with her is difficult, the pressure she can apply is unmatched, the range she has is insane and she doesn’t produce barely any sound

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A Youtuber needs to make a video about it before the consensus will change here.

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I’m sure majority of top 500 rocking her as the most played means nothing or seeing her constantly in ranked performing well or the fact I’m forced to play her in scrims if I want to compete. I’m not sure if you have some weird attraction to this character that blinds you from the truth.

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No. She just isnt that broken lol

Thats the truth of it

She is completely balanced right now and could actually do with some buffs, in particular to her ult cus it feels very weak and most of the time is just a worse orisa halt on an ultimate

If you are struggling against a hero who has to land consecutive shots on you, shots that dont even deal that much immediate damage and instead have a lengthy delay before the majority of dmg is applied through the explosion, allowing you ample time to react or be healed or use cover etc, all of that to even have the slightest chance of killing you

… That quite literally is a skill issue lol

130 dmg on a primary fire with a lengthy delay before 2/3rds of that damage is even applied is pretty average for a dps hero lol. There are much more broken heroes to be complaining about. Ones that dont give you any reaction time and just 1 shot you. Ones that can immediately hit you for 150+ dmg meaning you can just die out of nowhere. But because you refuse to learn to play around her extremely fair and honest kit you cry and tantrum …

Hilarious how a support main is the one having to defend a well balanced dps because people just refuse to play correctly against her…. If I as a support am having no issues dealing with a freja I think there is some issue with how you are playing. She is such a low threat unless you play extremely poorly.

Lets just pick a few different supports and how you basically can completely deny a freja.

Ana. Hitscan sniper so you can easily outduel a freja. Only takes 3 hits to kill her. The fact freja has to hover and slow down to aim means she is an easy target for sleep too. If you manage to get stuck twice as ana you literally throw nade at your feet and you wont die from it cus it changes her breakpoint on you. Additionally taking the self nano perk gives you an additional way to protect yourself. Healing anyone freja hits completely undoes her dmg

Lucio. Extremely difficult for freja to even hit you to start with. If she does land a hit, you have self heal which changes her breakpoint on you requiring her to land 3 shots to be even able to kill you. His constant aoe heals makes securing a kill on anyone 10x harder when he turns every 2 shot into needing 3 hits

Lw has 275hp meaning he at base requires 3 hits from freja to kill him. On top of that he has dash which self heals him again changing the breakpoints which freja can kill him. Tree and grip are amazing answers to freja and completely shut her down

Illari. Pylon period just kills frejas ttk. She HAS to take out your pylon or she will never finish off a kill cus the pylon will keep people above her breakpoint. Additionally, illari is extremely good at dueling freja with her weapon

If you are struggling vs freja when a support main isnt, theres a skill issue there. I am legit struggling to understand where you are having issues playing against her?

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You gotta be an ai or something lmao your posts make up like 25% of this entire discussion. Her ult doesn’t feel very weak to me when I carry games with one almost every fight. I think you might be the one experiencing a skill issue if you can’t get value out of it.

The fact you have to pull out very niche and terrible “points” about supports when a singular right click is enough to force 99% of cooldowns defensively if there is remotely any follow up is funny while being on a near non existent cd. Right click slowing her is as much as weakness as a strength you control how long you stay there. Quick scoping is completely viable with functioning hands.

Your posts read like someone who finally found a busted hero they can climb on but it’s still not enough.

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Spilo says its weak

And apparently thats enough round here according to other people in this thread.

Lol thats the same with literally any hero!!!

How is freja hitting you for 130 after 1 second delay any different from cass hitting you with 140 crit or 2 rapid 70 dmg shots to your body

ITS THE SAME THING!!!

Your acting like her primary does 300 unavoidable instant dmg and is completely unreasonable, other heroes do virtually the same thing as her and some do it better lol

A lot of heroes have much faster ttks than her as well. Some heroes dont even give any delay or reaction time with a hero like widow or hanzo. You are just dead lol. You can be 2 tapped by an ashe or cass much faster than freja can burst you down

You are just creating a double standard. Freja is extremely average for a dps. She is basically a slightly better junkrat. Believe what you want. Its just incorrect

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Burst damage that slows down characters, projectile size twice as big as Hanzo’s, with almost the same headshot damage. High mobility. No, this is a terrible design.