Forum's hypocrisy

General Discussion
1

Mercy before her rework was the most picked support but was “balanced” by the eyes of the forums, because she didn’t have the pickrate that she has now. Before her rework, Zen and Lucio were in the meta, and Ana was still at a nice spot even with her 60 damage.

http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/07/top-hero-mains-s5-pc.html

After Mercy’s buff, Lucio went sh*t mode, Zen became a must pick as long as the first Mercy meta started and Ana is being overshadowed by Mercy. Moira was added to the game and up until season 10 Moira was still in a good spot, and then the armor meta came, many shields were added and stuns became a huge part of the game, and because of that Moira is being overshadowed by Mercy at diamond all the way up to gm (Ana has more pickrate then her, while still being at a “not picked at all state”). And Brig, the season 10 “MOST OP SUPPORT PLEASE NERF” is being picked in the 2nd dps slot.

yet the forums

"Mercy is not the problem, it's just that the other supports are weak"

Zen has been meta for 7 seasons (4 , 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10), while Mercy was only for 5.67 seasons in the short seasons (2/3 of 6, 7, 8, 9, 10).

yet the forums:

"Zen is just favoured by the meta and Mercy he is balanced, and Mercy is balanced too"

(the last one is true but not all of it, Grav dragon has only one counters which is Zen’s true, but he is still very good without a Mercy)

disclaimer: not all of the people on the forums give those opinions, but they are very popular.

I can give many more examples of this, I’m just showing the main ones.

I do believe that the Zen and Mercy need a nerf and not the other supports buffed, because it will result in a power creep.

2 Likes
2

To be fair, Hanzo competes with 13 other dps for a spot while healers and tanks only compete with 4-5 others. That’s why Ana, despite being universally acknowledged as being terrible, still has a higher pick-rate than many dps. Moira is overall way more of a popular pick than Ana. So context matters.

3 Likes
3

Well thats a fair statement, I will remove it.

You’re right, for 86% of the players she is picked more, but both of them are overshadowed by Mercy and Zen at higher ranks.

4

What can I say? With Mercy it’s a combination of meta and a rework that left her in a state where she is viable in almost all situations, and Zen… well, discord is really good and Transcendence is a must if you want a chance to survive the GravDragon. Transcendence is probably one of the best ults in the game, and definitely the best defensive ult (or in my opinion, the only true defensive ult as SB is pretty bad right now in comparison).

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5

“The forums” don’t have opinions, individual posters do.

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6

right. Will add a disclaimer, but every time a thread attacks Mercy or Zen there are a lot of people that protect them. I saw a “nerf zen” thread that got 1 or 2 likes and 2nd reply, that only said “Since when Zen needs a nerf” got ~100 likes, which is crazy.

1 Like
7

You forgot to include the hypocrisy of everyone asking for a Mercy and Zen nerf based on Pickrate then asking for a Rein buff ignoring pickrate, yet they are the same people only using pickrate as their argument.

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Winrates balance out when the hero is almost at 100% winrate, so their winrate are around 50%, but their winrate are still higher then usual (~54.5%).

Also pickrate in OWL do matter, you can check them yourself if you want, but you already know what youre going to see.

1 Like
9

Winston had a 80+% pickrate at one point in time.

But he never got nerfed.

Hmm…

I’ll give you a hint as to why Mercy is picked so much. There are 5 healers.

  • Lucio cant take her role, he does a different job

  • Zenyatta is picked

  • Ana is trash tier

  • Moira doesnt work well with the meta

  • Brigitte is picked as 3rd support, not in place of Mercy.

There is no viable competition for Mercy’s slot.

The fundamental equivalence would be if you had
Genji, Hanzo, Bastion, Torbjorn and Symmetra as your only 5 DPS.

Oh look there are only 2 DPS picked all the time. Clearly Genji must be OP. /s

7 Likes
10

The reason the forums are the way they are is because controversy sparks conversation. If someone posts something you agree with, there’s not really much to be said. “Yes, you’re right.” Agreement doesn’t create debate, only disagreement does.

So these “better” threads quickly fall off the front page and get buried. While people tend to reply to things that are provocative and challenge their perception.

Is this a bad thing? I don’t think so. Because in the end, it’s what makes you want to speak your mind. But it does create the illusion that “the forum thinks this,” when in fact most of the topics that are “hot” are actually things people disagree with.

3 Likes
11

Ana is not trash tier, she is just overshadowed by Mercy. Stats before her rework show it. Moira, as I said, isn’t favoured by the meta. You didn’t read my thread.

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Stats before her rework had her at sub 50% winrate across the board except in GM, where the only hero below 50% winrate was prerework Hanzo.

Ana. Is. Not. Fine.

9 Likes
13

Yea, Reinhardt. I don’t get your point in GM both Rein and Zarya have the highest winrates, so nerf? This is the exact thing I was talking about, people saying Supports are OP and need a nerf because of statistics then completely ignoring the Statistics the tanks have because they don’t like supports and like tanks, it’s just ridiculous to have 2 different measuring systems, it’s either you worship pickrate/winrate as the only thing that matters or you don’t. You can’t just have double standards for different heroes.

Hero Statistics - Overbuff - Overwatch 2 Statistics (GM Stats under this Month which is an overview of the whole season but Rein and Zarya have the highest winrates under this week anyway)

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Source? Also she was used in the world cup more then mercy in the summer.

15

Mercy I think people generally recognise as being overpowered these day. Maybe not the forums with its legions of mercy one tricks, but in general I think the community recognises that she’s overpowered. At least high ranked people.

With Zen… I think people know he’s overpowered too, but people are sorta cool with that? He’s the only viable skilful supports and he only dominates high skillbrackets. He’s fun to play, fun to fight, fun to have on your team, good skillcurve, doesn’t force a meta or make anyone non-viable. Just in general, less Zenyatta isn’t a popular idea.

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Wait you mean before Mercy’s rework?

You do realize that Mercy was reworked because her pickrates were getting close to Zenyatta right?

Ana had a tiny hold out after S4, but soon dropped below Mercy by S6. You also do realize back at S4 we are talking about the UP Mercy before her ult buffs.

17

Personally I consider Mercy and Zen to be balanced.

They have excellent synergy with each other and provide a lot of utility for the team in a way that compliments each other.

When you look at the healers you kind of need to look at them as duos.

What Mercy brings to the table is:
Reliable healing - with burst capability through Rez only
Damage boost - this provides ult economy advantage and can secure kills
Team wide mobility - This is the number one strongest aspect of Mercy in my opinion, with a Mercy you don’t have to worry about the position of your main healer, she doesn’t restrict the mobility of the team, you can play more aggressively with a Mercy than with other main healers because of this.

Zenyatta combos really well with Mercy
Zenyatta has a high damage output and a damage amplification ability - this fills in the gaps of Mercy’s kit in that she does not provide much damage to the team at all.
Zenyatta has a team save ultimate
Zenyatta can easily back Mercy up when she needs it with the healing orb.

Zenyatta has low mobility - but this is ok when he pairs with a Mercy, for the reasons I stated earlier.

Mercy and Zen are picked so much because they fill in the weaknesses in the others kit and provide different but complimentary strengths to the team. This is why they are picked so much.

There USED to be a similar synergy with Lucio and Ana, this was destroyed with the Lucio rework in my opinion. Lucio does not provide enough team wide mobility to make up for Ana’s lack of mobility now that his speed aura is only 10m.

I honestly believe that we would see more Ana play if Lucio had a bigger speed aura and a more reliable ultimate. A main healer needs synergy with an off healer.

Changing up Lucio and Ana WILL NOT lead to power creep, it will just provide other reliable options for support combinations.

Mercy NEVER synergised well with Lucio - this combination usually lacks damage.
Mercy and Ana lack a team save ultimate when they are paired together.
Ana and Zenyatta don’t have enough mobility to be run together effectively.

1 Like
18

since when is the the excuse for reworking her? Never heard it before. Go and watch the Mercy developer update again and hear the real reasons for her rework.

2 Likes
19

Because her Mass Rez was getting oppressive

Hard to be oppressive when you are not picked.

Saying Mercy’s pickrates was below Ana pre Mercy rework is flat out lying.

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Mercy is fine now, mass res is never coming back! Life is good again! :slight_smile: