OMFG, BRIG is not a problem. NERFED to the ground and people still cant kill her right.
She is annoying AF but not as bad as she was.
A good counter would probably be introducing a hero like the TF2 Pyro(Scorch Shot) who could harass long range with aoe flames that can continually force ‘flinching’ while the DoT is on them.
Hanzo should lose either Lunge or Wall-climbing, he shouldn’t have both.
Saying that, genji should lose dash after a kill or double jump or wall climb too, lucio shouldn’t be able to constantly wall ride without touching the ground and stalling on point, hamster shouldn’t be able to constantly grapple and roll on point until he is either killed or his enemy team gets back to point because he stalled for so long.
Many heros need a major overhaul, but widow just needs a projectile drop, she shouldn’t be able to headshot from close range to long range with no dropoff. But we are now having ashe doing the same, just not as consistently.
These posters act like a Widow that can delete your team exists in every game. If the person is good, they will be annoying on a lot of DPS they play. I agree you need to put effort to kill her while she’s across the map safely shooting as she pleases.
But have you played Widow? You need to stay near your team because if you start getting even 2 picks, you automatically become the most focused target. They either dive you, go out of their way to kill you or just pick a shield to make you useless.
a good reason to pick widow
Right, Widow’s responsible for GOATS… when she’s been in the game with her power level staying pretty stagnant.
If that were the case, why haven’t we seen a meta similar to GOATS at any point prior? The closest was Triple tank back when Ana’s nanoboost enabled Genji, Reaper, Soldier and Rein. And the main line up for that meta was Rein, Zarya, Hog/Dva (either worked really), Genji/Reaper/Soldier (map dependent, with Nanoblade being the best after nano’s speed boost got removed), Ana, and Lucio (sometimes swapped to Zen but was mostly Lucio)
Snipers in other games typically have far greatly penalties to deal with than Widow does, though:
Most games don’t offer easy means of escape for snipers (at least not any that can’t be readily accessed by other players)–Widow can jump across an engagement area with her grapple, which many characters don’t have a ready response to (and those that do may have to deal with cooldowns)
Most games greatly restrict sniper ammunition and give them small mags–Overwatch has unlimited ammo, and Widow has a 10-shot magazine (for comparison, many games limit high-powered snipers at 3-6 shots).
Somewhat related to the above, many games create competition for sniper resources (i.e. Halo, Gears of War… basically any game with equal loadouts where the sniper spawns on the map), and those that don’t often double down on the above restrictions (i.e. CoD, where many snipers are a one-or-two-shot-then-reload)–Overwatch has no resource competition for ammunition or guns.
Most snipers have a low RoF and can’t fire a partially charged shot to clean up kills, and those that don’t often can’t OHKO–Widow also has a low RoF, but she can prematurely fire.
Many games place aim-intensive mechanics like hip sway or bullet drop on their snipers–Widow doesn’t deal with these.
In most games, sniper characters have the same hitboxes (visual and actual) as every other character–Widow has a fairly slender and small hitbox.
In most games, players aren’t forced through chokes and have multiple navigational options regardless of their class, meaning they’re not so directly fed to snipers–this isn’t so much the case in Overwatch, where on many maps teams are forced to move through a handful of choke points unless they’re a flanker, making opportune sniper picks far more available.
Really, the most that Widow has in common with snipers in other games is that A) she has to deal with low FoV when zoomed in, making her vulnerable to flanking maneuvers (partially mitigated by her grapple), and B) her CQC is relatively weak. Obviously not every sniper in every game has all the above drawbacks and weaknesses that Widow does, but they very, very frequently have more than she does. It’s not really comparable to point out Halo’s snipers, or Battlefield’s snipers, or CoD or GoW or whatever, and then to try to use that to justify Widow’s position in the game.
4 Likes
Doesn’t matter. She exists, respect her existence. If we compared every hero to their counterparts in other FPS, there would be a cluster****. She is a sniper, she one shots if you let her. Either don’t let her or get over it.
If you want games that function like others, then go play those.
I think you missed my point entirely, but okay
1 Like
I don’t really care for the point frankly. It’s not changing, why waste the effort writing a long response comparing to other games when the entirety of this game is astronomically different?
I’m not going to keep responding to the same points by multiple people.
What on earth makes you think that Widow is never going to change? She’s been changed dramatically many times in the past, including at launch.
“It’s not changing”
Except that’s the entire point behind the thread. To argue for change.
When Brigitte released and was mad OP, if someone came along and said, “Too bad, this game is different from other games, Brigitte is here to stay as she is and it’s not changing, get over it or go play something else,” do you really think that would’ve been a satisfactory argument? Maybe you do, but I think the great majority of people wouldn’t agree.
The devs have shown that they’re willing to identify problem characters and change them. That’s… like the entire point of the patches. Thus, the thread is arguing that Widow needs changed because she is a problem. Your response, however, is to say that no, Widow doesn’t need to change, because she exists in the game, and snipers have always existed in games. But my point is that Widow isn’t like snipers in other games–something you seem very willing to acknowledge but refuse to recognize that this means we can’t use the simple fact that she exists, as snipers have in many games, to justify her current position, power, gameplay, etc in Overwatch.
Thus, when you use a specious argument like that, yes, I’m going to point out why said argument is specious and why people reading this who are potentially on the fence about Widowmaker shouldn’t agree with faulty reasoning.
2 Likes
Instead of being at eachothers throats fighting for your opinion wether it be right or wrong she is a problem.
Wether you think she needs to be adressed and how to do this is another thing entirely.
Goats was made to counter DPS effectiveness such as Widow/Hanzo and makes these DPS generate LESS value as they would compared to alternate comps at the time.
A EXCEPTIONAL Widow on the enemy team dictates your comp and gameplay and she simply has too much value potential if left unchecked.
Deny Zen/Ana’s existence before a teamfight?
One shotting Moira through coalesence?
One shotting Reaper through death blossom?
I could go on.
Pray tell, what has changed that changed the core of how her character works? Her headshot damage at Max charge has always been 300, the only thing that has really changed is her grappling hook CD which took her from a throw pick (12 CD) to a near must pick (8 CD) to what we have now (10 CD).
Widow is fine, she hasn’t changed at all in terms of headshots since the game came out and I highly doubt she is going to.
You can do that all you want, but maybe you shouldn’t reply to the 4th response in a thread 130+ long. I’m pretty sure by then that discussion has probably been had a few times.
After a certain point you are just going to get “git gud” out of irritation. And I’m at that point, so deal with it.
Maybe next time catch up first.
If “git gud” was the answer to Widowmaker, she wouldn’t be so popular at top 500. She becomes more dominant as people get better, not less.
Good thing the majority of the player base isn’t even above plat huh.
2 Likes
Most games don’t have flying monkeys with Tesla cannons, hamsters in a metal ball, pro gamers helming death weapons, a guy who heals bullet wounds with Good Vibes, Edgelords who become the vape and what not. Yet here we are…
And Widow is STILL the second slowest sniper in FPS history, with TF2’s sniper being the slowest. In other games snipers have the exact same mobility as everyone else. They can also quickscope and oneshot-bodyshot. And have formidable close quarters defense.
Given how the rest of overwatch’s cast function, she falls right in line with them and follows the basic guidelines to have them on par with others. She even took hits against her with her charge mechanic (only on her and tf2 sniper), no quickscope (only sniper unable to do so) and only oneshot-headshots
1 Like
Man, people don’t like facts, get that outta here.
1 Like
A widow player’s greatest weapon is dedicated practice. They also have to take care of their bodies and minds to perform consistently. If you are whining about being dominated by a widow, you’re admitting you want to win without putting in any effort and they are not only more skilled than you, they’re probably living a better life too.
3 Likes
lmao
are you actually a real human
What did i just read
3 Likes