How do you figure that math? If you want to play any character you want, you only have 1 other player competing for that pick, since the other 4 are locked out of your chosen role entirely.
Both times the devs took away “creative freedoms” from the players, and last time it happened, the game became much easier to balance, less cheesy, healthier. I’m not much of a gambling man, but I would bet the same thing will happen again.
Exactly what creativety are we talking about. I play in bronze/silver/gold wich is pretty much the bulk of the player base - way more than half - and i’ll be extremly conservative with my estimate and say that 80% of my games is 5 man dps. It’s so bad that most times I can even predict which dps will likely be played. And just because the pro’s can pull of double sniper it doesn’t mean 3 snipers should be a thing. Any team comp can win if the enemy team is just so unbelievably rubbish but the fact of the matter is more times than not it you just have a reasonably competint tank and healer you are already one up on a 6 man dps.
Thats an OTP mentality mate.
That math comes from me being a Flex player (yeah we do exist) and many of us don’t play the same role during the whole match.
With this change thats literally impossible. Therefore if you are on the Support role, your choice is restricted. You can’t pick any DPS, therefore thats -16 heroes, and you can’t pick any tanks, therefore thats another -7 .
Again, the “freedom” restriction of not being able to pick one her … did you actually understand what I wrote above?
You are comparing 2 things that are not on the same level, like NOT AT ALL.
If I were you, I would not bet any amount of money on that mate. Mostly because a bad implemented forced 2 2 2 will literally drive a huge amount of players to quit the game.
I know a lot of players that quit and are waiting for a Role Queue before they come back.
Oh yeah, this hasn’t been posted yet, but it’s the best argument I’ve seen for 2-2-2.
The flex player is a myth, much like the fabled unicorn. I don’t call swopping to a single roadhog when we need a main tank flexing. That’s picking a dps with a larger hitpoint pool, flexig between different dps doesn’t count either.
I have the agony of three snipers and a sombra (not on mic and adverse to using emp) in just about evry game in a tier where people can’t even secure kills with pray and spray characters. The enemy team has a rein and an orissa, yes I know it’s not a good comp but with double barriers and us never having a tank we have no point presence and can’t get past the barriers. I’m willing to play tank but then I never have a healer.
The 2-2-2 queue is a dumb idea because it goes against common sense and the nature of communities in such games.
All games with roles/classes in them had much more people willing to play DPS roles, than tanks and healers. Ever since tabletop RPGs. It is natural for gamers. It’s statistically so.
And what 2-2-2 queue idea does? It ignores this and builds a game around assumption that equal amount of people will play DPS, Tanks and Healers. It is ignoring the information you have beforehand and going against the statistic. Instead of building a game around the data we have and making it so game doesn’t require 2-2-2 to be balanced.
Not to mention that Blizzard goes out of their way to make tanks dependant on heals and overall boring.
Because people were right back in the days means that they can’t be wrong today ?
Damn, forum logic is as special as my mommy tells me I am.
Following your logic, I was in favor of the suppression of hero stacking back in the day, I was right, now I’m against the rolelock, as i’ve been 100% right in the past, people should listen to me.
Well thanks for calling me a Mythical creature, Im going to take that as a compliment.
Do you know whats a bigger Myth? The belief that introducing a forced 222 is going to solve any issue. All the issues people think its going to fix come from player’s behaviour and no, forced 222 is not going to solve that.
You are just changing the tag on the same dog.
The problem with the situation that we have now is that it has created a meta that the developers can’t resolve at both ends of the spectrum in a healthy way for everyone, without 2/2/2 tanks will get nerfed and DPS will get buffed until even fewer people tank on ladder. Characters like Lucio get ruined by the Dev team by destroying how they handle just for the sake of preserving the play whatever you want mentality, and that philosophy is only going to take more casualties with it.
I never claimed it would solve every issue, their is no system in the world that can do that. I’m not sure what tier you play in, perhaps you are one of the lucky few to play in the top 13 % from diamond and above in which case people may not always tow the line but at least you can have the reasonable expectation of having at least 1 tank and healer and being able to do something with your team comp.
But for the rest of us stuck with 5 dps who aren’t securing the kills needed to take the point, the game has become a clown fest. I’d rather the game sacrificed some flexebility and at least matched people in roles they want to play in. Maybe then the general populouscan start to learn about teamwork and how the game is meant to be played.
For 5 -6 dps to even remotely have a chance of working your team need to be super co ordinated, on coms, have excellent mecanichal skills, awareness and positioning. It also helps if the enemy team is lousy too. How often does that happen in Ladder?
Forcing 2-2-2 will save the game. Role que will save the game.
And it’s delusional to think it destroys creativity
Look mate, I have an account in Low diamond/high plat and also play with Gold friends. That doesnt happen, ok?
222 Is already the most prevalent comp in Competitive across all ranks besides GM because of GOATS.
Read above.
The biggest problem is not the comp, its the player’s behaviour and that is not going to be solved by this, on the contrary, its going to get even worse.
If DPS are frustrated and there are separate SR for each role, the consequences are going to be :
There are A LOT of possible bad, really really really BAD outcomes of this and the developers know it, thats why they are taking so long.
You know, I wish Blizzard actually introduced 2-2-2. Just so I can watch like not even a day later forum is filled with the same pro-2-2-2 people again. But now with threads like “If you pick Sombra - you are wasting DPS slot”, “If you pick support slot - you should pick a GOOD healer” and so on.
If 2-2-2 gets implemented, very quickly there will be a meta. And there will be heroes-outsiders, that don’t work well in new conditions. And I know wouldn’t be enough for people who request 2-2-2 to just get it, they will demand others to make RIGHT picks too.
So, we will move from one issue, to another.
The real solution, though, is to look at WHY so little people want to play tanks. And fixing that.
Look the comps that get the most hate is tank comps or dive/dps comps.
2-2-2 is just a basic level to keep at. Don’t think I’ve heard anyone complain that our team went 2-2-2
Maybe so, but a well implemented would easily double the current population of the game, since a huge number of players would return.
There’s also the bigger thing, it would make the game vastly easier to balance for the devs.
It will solve a particular issue, people like you just seem to believe that everyone else thinks that it’s going to suddenly magically make the community better. Nobody does, it’ll help solely with consistent team comps, which in turn makes it easier to balance all heroes. Regardless of whether you like it or not, that will lead to higher quality matches (i.e. much more consistent ones), even if not by a huge margin.
If people want to meme, there’s still QP, which I highly doubt would ever get a role queue.
It’s really just a case of pick your poison:
You just admitted you play in low diamond high plat, So you are in the top 13 % of the playerbase where teamork is more regular and people try to build comps. Then you tell me 5 dps doesn’t happen regularly in lower tiers, my sr has ranged from 1200 to 2995 (that’s bronze right through to almost low plat) currently I’m in bronze and 5 dps is very much a thing. And playing in the bottom tiers has taught me that every 100 sr you drop is a very big deal. the if you fall below 1500 it becomes luck who has the worst team.
That is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE stretch (im not using more letters because it would break the forum)
Doesn’t really affect us at all.
Of course deleting a huge amount of permutations will make balance easier but then again, you are basically cutting off the part that makes this game unique.
And thats a Fact.
More like a small margin and yeah, it concerns me because it basically destroys the way I play the game right now (me and many other flex players).
So yeah, enjoy that “low margin” by cutting off a vast part of the player population.
Of course when it doesnt affect you you think its “worth the trade”, quite a biased stance btw. Nothing else to add.
I am not. Its said by the developers themselves.
Look for Josh Noh interviews and Jeff with Stylosa/Emongg and Fran. He clearly states that 222 is the most prevalent composition, like BY FAR.
So yeah, it is what it is.
Well, would increase the population regardless.
Have you been living under a rock for the past year?
If unique ONLY means being able to get 5 DPS in comp and lose, then that’s not a good trait.
Extremely pointless to add, unless you either somehow feel like it will diminish my post or you severely lack reading comprehension.
While I can’t speak for you, I can tell you for a fact that most flex players I’ve met don’t call themselves fill players. Being a flex player doesn’t mean you have to switch roles in the same match.
It’s all subjective. Some people will hate a role-queue, while the majority of players want it. No matter how much of an omnipotent being you think you are, you’re still posting opinions and nothing else here.
The only question here is:
Is it worth getting improved balance and consistency in exchange for being unable to pick strange (and usually bad) comps and giving DPS players long queue times (also being unable to switch roles, unless they add a flex role)?
The answer to that is subjective indeed.