Forced games and matchmaker?

Competitive Discussion
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Well im kinda curious now about this. I have read ( these forums… ) that matchmaker " wants you " win 50% of your games and if you progress well, start win more games, matchmaker gives you a lot harder games to keep you at 50% winrate? Like if you play well and glimb up your reward will be " bad team "?

Well now to question : does anyone have actual proof about this, example a lot of video clips about " broken matchmaker " and also at which rank this can see clearly, if " forced games " are true ? I know that i can’t win every single games, but i belive that i can make huge affect to my own progress and my own game play will affect to like 70% of games. Now you can change my mind. Discuss!

e: Also as side note, personally i have seen that if i play well, i will get better and better team mates next 3 games example, after that there will be the hard one and if i lose it i start like over again, get easy games and playing well will be rewarded as good team and again after 3 games there will be hard one. I havent been at " lose streak " while season 22 have been on, usually after 2 lose i win like 3-4 games. Also i belive that 2/2/2 comp have made my games alot better.

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idk
pretty sure they’re just using a clip that says each match tries to be as 50/50 as possible

and they take that as
‘matchmaker tries to force a 50% winrate’ instead of ‘matchmaker tries to make even matches’

thats about it im pretty sure

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Matchmaker only want one thing, to create perfectly balanced 50/50 games where both teams have exactly same chance to win. Matchmaker doesnt care about your winrate.

No, there is nothing :slight_smile: because it is just a Myth.

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I don’t think the matchmaker is rigged but the fact so many people make the same post everyday kinda indicates a problem in itself.

It doesn’t matter if the matchmaker is giving “fair” games if a large percentage of the population doesn’t perceive it that way.

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But is the problem with game or with population? :smiley:

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The matchmaker wants you to win 50% of your games in the same way a coin wants to land heads up 50% of the time. It doesn’t.

The matchmaker uses an adaptation of the Elo rating system, which provides a way of determining the expected score of a team (the probability of winning plus half the probability of drawing). Matches are made using team average SR (and MMR) such that each team’s expected score is close to 0.5 or 50%, as that would be an even match.

Note that not all matches will have teams at exactly the same average SR. According to a statistical analysis done on about 3000 competitive games, a team with an average SR 50 higher than the other team has a win probability of about 53.45%. A difference of 100 SR gives the favored team a 56.88% chance of winning. Since not all matches are perfectly even, the matchmaker rewards a team for winning at a disadvantage.

Over a long period of time, after playing many games where the probability of winning is close to 50%, you should expect to see a near 50% win rate. Just like when flipping a coin many times you get very close to a 50% tail rate.

If you begin to progress and start winning significantly more games, your rank goes up. A higher rank will consist of harder games, especially for a person who potentially only ended up in that rank due to a streak of luck.

The matchmaker doesn’t give you harder games to keep you at 50%, it gives you harder games because people who play at higher ranks tend to be better players.

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Why does it have to be one or the other? If I was blizzard I’d be looking at the things I had control over. . . I’ve been lurking here for a long time and it’s clear there is a problem. Even if it’s not what people claim Victim blaming each person who posts something like this is not the solution.

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Are you sure that problem is not players themself and theyr attidute :smile: ?

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The proof many people provide is their own profiles showing a 50% winrate.

They don’t seem to realize that even with the most perfectly fair system one can possibly dream of, they’ll still get a 50% winrate.

What they want is a positive winrate because that makes them feel good, even though that’s statistically impossible to maintain by the simple fact that you don’t go up against bots, you go against other players. Unless of course you are the single best player in the world and can consistently beat anyone you go up against. In which case, damn, we have a ton of “single best” players around here.

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So you’re telling me it’s a coincidence all of these people make the same exact post day in and day out because they have similar attitudes? I think there is a more consistent variable you may be overlooking .

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So this means that when im at my " right rank " my win rate starts to go closer to 50%?

e: Also there have been alot of topics about smurf ruining games, at which rank there are most of them?

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Too many people tend to take credit for wins and pass blame for losses. To them things never seem fair. Some of them go here to find excuses. The matchmaker is not perfect for sure but even if it were, people would still complain about it.

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I’m telling you folks this, there was a dev post in the last forums that explain matchmaker tries to predict a players out come and will place with others.

But imagine this, you win rate is at 49%, its going to place with people with 51%, and same on the other side.

The issue is, the last game you lost you might have had the best game in the world, but a teammate was afk or didnt play right. Then a would be winner is placed with “winners” and all of a sudden you rofl stomp the other team.

OR you won the last match, giving you a 51% win, but you only won cause a smurf was on your team, you really sucked but was carried. Now it places you with 49%'ers. But they true 49%'er losers. Now you got a team of true losers, against an ok team. You GET roflstompped.

Apply this to “teams” and now you get a team of 3 people who just won, but they really suck, or a team that just lost and your suppose to carry. But they either take credit for the win, or blame the solo queuers for the lost. (we just won it must be you).

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Matches are not made based on player’s win rates.

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All I know is how players perceive matchmaker is just as important if not more important than the matchmaker itself. If it cannot even create a convincing “illusion” of fairness it’s integrity is undermined. And this is where we are at now. Go on the Starcraft forum. How many people complain about forced loss streaks and rigged matchmaker there?

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No there wasnt, there was dev post saying that matchmaker is trying to make 50/50 games to make same good teams.

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In Starcraft, you have only yourself to blame for losing. I think a lot of players in Overwatch throw out their personal responsibility for losing because they always have 5 other teammates (who tend to be bad players when one loses).

The difference isn’t in the integrity of the matchmakers. It’s in the fact that there are 6 players on a team, any of whom could make the match more difficult to win. Sometimes you cannot carry your team, no matter how hard you try. But does that make the match unfair?

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Yes.

If you climb too high, games will become too hard for you and you’ll start losing more than you win.
If you fall too low, games will become too easy and you’ll win more than you lose.

“Where you belong” is that sweet spot of inflection where things aren’t generally skewed for or against you. That’ll naturally result in a coin toss 50/50. Winning half the time and losing half the time is a good thing, because that means the matchmaker is found where you belong and can give you similarly ranked opponents.

I mean, I can’t really answer that. Many people conveniently claim its the rank they’re stuck in. To be fair, there’s an argument for all ranks.

Bronze and Silver: Bottom rungs of the ladder, even people in Gold (most populated rank) can drop down for some easy wins
Gold and Plat: Could have the most smurfs by the simple merit of just having the most players
Diamond and Masters: Higher ranked players just looking for a calmer game, maybe do some practice on a different hero
GM: Not really smurfs at this point, but still people trying to fill T500 with as many alt accounts as possible.

Literally anywhere could potentially have the most or be more dense with smurfs. It’s impossible to say without hard statistics, and that’s something not even devs know for certain.

What I will say though is it doesn’t really matter. Smurfs can throw off games here and there, yes, and they do make climbing more of a trek then it maybe should be, sure. But they’re simply not common enough to keep you down out of a rank you belong in. And even when they are in your game, it’s pretty much still a coin toss for which team they’ll be on, which results in another 50/50 evening things out, causing the main factor to still be dependent on you over time. This is why many people say “don’t focus on your teammates, just work on what you can do better.” Because given time, your performance is the single most consistent factor in your rank.

I agree that perception is important. But you have to realize that’s ultimately uncontrollable. You can have the same players playing with the same teammates and against the same opponents, and have widely varying results based on things such as map, attitude, or time of day. KotH games are great examples, honestly. You can have a one sided stomp at first, then come back to take the next two points and win. Same players, same matchmaking, but just a different map and a different outcome.

You can’t artificially create an illusion of fairness, you can only make things fair and hope it’s obvious.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Starcraft isn’t typically a team game. It’s impossible to falsely blame the matchmaker for rigging your teammates to force a loss when you don’t have teammates in the first place. If you lose, it has to be because the enemy outplayed you, and there’s no way around that. Compare that to this game where “I’m better than the enemy but my team’s dragging me down.”

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There is a 3v3 ranked mode I highly suggest checking out as Starcraft is a free game and the 3v3 mode is a great way to learn the game.

My point isn’t to compare games it was to compare forum posts between games. I will do further research on DoTa LoL and CS forums and see if it is possible for a MM Togo more than a few days without being called “rigged” by multiple people.

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We both remember the dev post, I wish we could find it. The key is what you admitted - it “tries”.

Well I can bucket this into 2 things, if it tries, how?
If it doesnt try, is it random or pure timeliness when someone queues up? I think not. I think its also odd that a dps partner will keep re-occurring.

At the end of the day, we all know it “does something”. We know it has to be “fast” and not computationally heavy. It maynot be based on “win percentages” then I ask “what then”. If its based on MMR, isnt that a derivative of win percentages?

Its a conundrum.

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