Seems that way.
Instead of suggesting pointless artificial limitations people should discuss more about hero ban/protect system. Because it actually solves problems.
While people keep whining that hero bans will prevent pro players from playing their best heroes - actual pro players are already playing tournaments with hero ban/protect system:
It solves problems for the top 1%, but a good role queue is what the bottom 90% need.
Nah. Leave it as is before doing that. If 4 people are running around DPSing I’m not interested in supporting (when I see 4-5 DPS it’s time to Mei). That’s the problem with all of this, you’re locking people into something they don’t want to play based on who loads first and can click the mouse.
Enforcing a certain Playsytle like 2/2/2 would actually help with a balancing… the current boundless way of creating comps requires the consideration of a lot of possible matchups (as seen by a lot of recent balance patches Blizzard doesn’t do that anyway…) But locking a 2/2/2 scenario would mean you’d slice out a big chunk of the possible matchups… making balancing properly actually easier to do.
Not, how will this hero do if they’re up against mutliple tanks? Or backed up by 5 supports… more like How will they do with specdific hero pairings. A couple of the heavy nerfs we got in recent times would likely have been completely obsolete if 2/2/2 was the enforced comp.
I’ve said multiple times that this will not actually work - people don’t look at the true effect it would have at high level.
At low levels it may promote variety - but how do you get a consensus between 6 solo players? The last thing this game needs is an extra reason for people to be toxic as they didn’t agree with your choice of ban.
At high levels they almost all play the same comp. Isn’t it obvious that they would then all ban the same characters? Back to square 1 and mirror comps.
Then… look at Owl. Hey its Jjonak Zen and ANa Block Oh, Fleta Blocks widow etc.
It would be entirely predictable and in some cases just force people away from the game. Anyone well known as a good widow main would be screwed - you essentially want to make the best widow counter be banning widow.
Don’t be silly, hero bans works in the same way for regular players in competitive just as well as it works for pros. There is no difference at all, it is not a skill depending mechanic.
That is pretty bad argument. Because in the same way you can say that if would be much easier to balance the game if devs just force all player to play only Rein/Zarya/Tracer/McCree/Ana/Zen comp. Because you will be right, it will be much easier to balance. But it will be a gutted game.
Forcing players to play only 2/2/2 is also a gutting the game.
The core value of this game is diversity of options. By gutting amount of available options you obviously make the whole system easier to balance, but at cost of making it much less rich, diverse and flexible.
It is better to overcome difficulties and balance more options, than limiting players to play only one balanced option and taking a risk that players will be bored after a week or so. The game already lacking variety, because people get used to everything. You just want to make it worse.
Pros say otherwise. That is why they made no only bans, but also ban protection.
When the world stops listening to Jayne the world will be a better place.
Said it before and will say it again.
Enforced roles are a terrible idea
Enforced roles with 2-2-2 would result in a lot of DPS pickrates being forever terrible, making a terrible idea even more terrible
Yes, please, seriously. I’ll take 10 minute DPS queues. I don’t care. 2-2-2. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
Yeah just start balancing the game around gold then. Bye-bye Overwatch.
Anyone I’ve ever seen criticise the idea of forced 222 can never give an explanation of what would be wrong with it besides “muh variety”. Which is hilarious since with 222 as a foundation the game could be balanced in a way we would certainly see much more variety in actual viable comps.
Here’s an idea, how about put 2-2-2 on PTR or even in arcade, let the play-test decide. Truth is, most people don’t know what they want. We can argue all day but the end result may be the ones for and against may shift their opinions upon actually playing it. It may very well be overwhelmingly one sided. We won’t know, and Blizzard won’t know, until it can actually be played.
It is called an experience from the past. Before Brig was released majority of players played 2/2/2 like if it would be forced. We played that way for 2.5 years. And during these 2.5 years devs could not balance it, because it was endless dive vs dive. They already could not do it in the same environment as you ask to create with forced 2/2/2.
But at some point they finally solved problem of mirror 2/2/2. They added Brig. And with Brig 3/3 comps became a thing. And existence of viable 3/3 comp turned 2/2/2 from mandatory to just an option, one of the many.
People who want forced 2/2/2 think that there are bad comp.
Sorry, but you are wrong. There are no bad comp. There are bad players. And good ones too. I can’t remember exactly, but one Chinese or Korean team were winning tournament games with 4 dps, 1 healer and 1 Zarya as a tank. Were winning against Goats. And there was no problem in that at all.
When you dive into solo queue competitive and you get a team of 5 dps you lose not because it is impossible to win with 5 dps, but because these specific players (you included) don’t know how to play with 5 dps effectively. When you lose it is a result of lack of skill and bad decision making of players. By forcing 2/2/2 comp you simply tries to standardize all games via limiting of amount of decision players can make. Bad news for you - it will not immediately make players to make only good decision. Even with forced 2/2/2 you will keep playing in teams with 2 Rein mains, or DPS players on tank roles, but with no skill of playing tanks, because they simply entered tank queue because they are tired of waiting for hours in dps queue because majority of playerbase wants to play DPS.
Forced 2/2/2 will not make your playing experience any better. It will only limits your options, but even with fewer options players will make bad decisions and ruin your games.
Forced 2/2/2 literally solves no problem. Literally not a single one. Because majority of problems comes from players, not comps.
Want a proof? There is already a solution for all problems that people want to solve with forced 2/2/2. It is called LFG. It already solves all problem with comps. You want to play in perfectly balanced and will structured 2/2/2 team? Done, you have a tool to make such team.
But people are stupid and lazy. They don’t use LFG because “it takes too much time”. But they refuse to understand that the only reason why it takes more time is lack of players using LFG. You people are the reason why LFG takes more time, not LFG itself as a system. LFG is perfect, but people are lazy. People want to get the best result as fast as possible, they want to push one button and immediately get a perfectly structured team with tanks, supports and dps.
Sorry people, but this is unrealistic. Better result requires you to put more time and effort to achieve it.
By adding forced 2/2/2 and role queue you want to achieve the same thing that already can be achieved via LFG, but automatically. But in that case you should realize that in role queue it will take much more time with no guarantee of good result at all, while in LFG the amount of time needed and the end result depend only on you.
2 Likes
Im not for role que and you’re too focused on the matchmaking experience. Advocates of 222 want better balance for the game as a whole. You managed to write so much yet failed to deliver a reason as to why keeping the game as is can be balanced and allow for multiple actual viable comps.
A team winning one time with 4 dps v goats only proves that team was going to win anyway. Class stacking is broken, it’s the reasons hero limits wetee introduces and the same reason 222 will in time.
2/2/2 isn’t the problem with this game. Any comp can win, it’s the fact that people DEMAND 2/2/2 and will try to force other people to do it. The second that they don’t get what they WANT, they believe they’re going to lose, and they don’t play as hard.
By trying to force 2/2/2 you only have yourself to blame.
On top of it, when you try to force 2/2/2 and YOU pick the 3rd of any role, you’re being a hypocrite. You don’t get to pick the 3rd of a role then preach your 2/2/2 beliefs on the rest of the team.
nah. Wont solve anything. People will still complain and still be toxic if they lose. it’s not the game’s design, it’s the people
100% agreed. I think 2-2-2 is also Blizzard’s intended comp (the “warnings” before a match will always complain about something unless you’re running 2-2-2), but they’ve always been afraid to lock it in for some reason even though everyone hates all the meta comps that involve 3 or more of a given class.